Is General Relativity Wrong on Large Scales?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the implications of recent observations suggesting that the universe is clumpier than expected, potentially challenging aspects of general relativity (GR) on large scales. Participants explore whether this clumping indicates a need for a redesign of the standard model of cosmology or a reevaluation of gravity's behavior, particularly in relation to dark energy and structure formation.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference a paper indicating an excess of clustering in galaxy surveys, suggesting this could imply new physics or a need to reassess the LCDM model.
  • Others question whether the observed clumping is merely a result of dark matter or if it involves other factors, raising concerns about its implications for curvature models.
  • A participant highlights that gravity on large scales is constrained by cosmic microwave background (CMB) observations, suggesting that a real discrepancy with GR is unlikely.
  • Another viewpoint critiques the argument for a significant deviation from GR, noting that the observed clumping (2%) versus predicted clumping (1%) is a weak basis for testing GR, and emphasizes the complexity of changing gravity's behavior at large scales.
  • Concerns are raised about the scale being probed, as structure formation occurred at much smaller scales, complicating the interpretation of the results.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the observed clumping, with no consensus on whether it necessitates a revision of general relativity or if it can be explained by existing models and observations.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on the definitions of clumping and dark energy, as well as the unresolved nature of the mathematical implications of the observed clustering on large scales.

Dotini
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GR "slightly" Wrong?

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/06/clumpy-universe/

The universe appears to be clumpier than astronomers expected, according to the largest galaxy survey to date. The extra clumps could call for a redesign of the standard model of cosmology, and maybe a new understanding of how gravity works.

“Maybe on very large scales, Einstein’s general relativity is slightly wrong,” said cosmologist Shaun Thomas of University College London, lead author of a new paper in Physical Review Letters. “This potentially could be one of the first signs that something peculiar is going on.”

The universe appears to be clumpier than astronomers expected, according to the largest galaxy survey to date. The extra clumps could call for a redesign of the standard model of cosmology, and maybe a new understanding of how gravity works.

The result could mean cosmologists need to reassess their understanding of dark energy, the mysterious force that drives the universe outward at an ever-increasing rate. Dark energy itself is supposed to be almost perfectly smooth, but clumps of dark energy could draw clumps of visible matter around them.

The extra lumps could also mean dark energy doesn’t exist at all. Instead, gravity could behave differently on very large scales than it does on smaller scales, meaning Einstein’s theory of general relativity needs an overhaul.



Respectfully submitted,
Steve
 
Last edited:
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Here is the paper:

http://arxiv.org/abs/1012.2272

"Excess Clustering on Large Scales in the MegaZ DR7 Photometric Redshift Survey

We observe a large excess of power in the statistical clustering of Luminous Red Galaxies in the photometric SDSS galaxy sample called MegaZ DR7. This is seen over the lowest multipoles in the angular power spectra C_{\ell} in four equally spaced redshift bins between 0.45 < z < 0.65. However, it is most prominent in the highest redshift band at ~ 4 sigma and it emerges at an effective scale k ~ 0.01 h Mpc^{-1}. Given that MegaZ DR7 is the largest cosmic volume galaxy survey to date (3.3 (Gpc h^{-1})^3) this implies an anomaly on the largest physical scales probed by galaxies. Alternatively, this signature could be a consequence of it appearing at the most systematically susceptible redshift. There are several explanations for this excess power that range from systematics to new physics. This could have important consequences for the next generation of galaxy surveys or the LCDM model. We test the survey, data and excess power, as well as possible origins. "
 


Is this just clumping suggested of DM or does it involve other things?
Does this new data affect curvature models?
What other aspects would this affect?
 


This is the most likely explanation, quoted from their abstract:
Alternatively, this signature could be a consequence of it appearing at the most systematically susceptible redshift.

One of the main issues here is that gravity on the largest scales is already tightly constrained by CMB observations, so it is highly unlikely that, in the end, this will end up being a real discrepancy.
 


Yeah, it does seem like kind of a weak argument: a simulation using GR predicts 1% clumping, but we observe 2% clumping. It's a very indirect way to test GR.

The Wired article says:
Instead, gravity could behave differently on very large scales than it does on smaller scales, meaning Einstein’s theory of general relativity needs an overhaul.
Well, structure formation happened when the universe's scale factor was a lot smaller than it is today, so it's not clear to me what scale is actually being probed. Also, the Einstein field equations are invariant with respect to changes of coordinates, including rescaling, so changing the behavior of gravity at large distance scales would require a pretty major change to the basic structure of GR.
 

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