Is George W. Bush's IQ Really 129?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the IQ of George W. Bush, specifically the claim that it is 129 based on his pre-1974 SAT score. Participants explore the implications of this IQ score, the relationship between IQ and intelligence, and comparisons with other political figures, particularly in Europe. The conversation includes elements of humor, skepticism, and political commentary.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that while IQ scores may indicate potential, they do not directly translate to intelligence, with one participant humorously noting that Bush's IQ might not reflect his performance in college.
  • Another participant questions the relevance of Bush's IQ, suggesting that regardless of the score, effective public speaking and image are crucial for a president.
  • There are assertions that Bush's IQ score of 129, derived from his SAT score, could imply he excels in certain areas like visuo-spatial and mathematical skills, though this is met with skepticism by others.
  • Comparisons are made between Bush's IQ and that of other political figures, including Al Gore, with some participants expressing doubt about the significance of these comparisons.
  • One participant raises the question of the average IQ of European leaders, prompting a discussion about the educational backgrounds of politicians in Europe compared to those in the U.S.
  • Several participants engage in light-hearted banter and humor regarding the implications of Bush's IQ and intelligence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the significance of Bush's IQ score or its implications for his intelligence and capabilities as a leader. Multiple competing views remain regarding the relationship between IQ, intelligence, and effective leadership.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the correlation between SAT scores and IQ, the validity of using IQ as a measure of intelligence, and differing perspectives on the qualities necessary for effective political leadership.

  • #61
Zoidsoft said:
It doesn't matter if he has an IQ of 190- he still is a horrible public speaker. And the institution of the presidency requires more than just raw intelligence. It's all about image. If you're a genius and you portray the wrong image to the public and rest of the world said:
still in high school? The real world doesn't operate that way. It may be cool to hate the nerds in school, but in real life they are (usually) the people running american industry and government while the "cool kids" are all at the gas stations and factories. I've seen this trend in action. I want the leader of my country to be intelligent- if Bush is smart he hides it very well, and he certainly isn't using his intelligence to run the country.
 
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  • #62
Zantra said:
if Bush is smart he hides it very well, and he certainly isn't using his intelligence to run the country.
Zantra, I like that. Maybe ... not the country ... but for sure his business. He generates billions for his friends on your taxes. Now that's smart ... or he had some "luck" (?), meaning meeting the wrong guys at the right moment. :biggrin:
 
  • #63
pelastration said:
Zantra, I like that. Maybe ... not the country ... but for sure his business. He generates billions for his friends on your taxes. Now that's smart ... or he had some "luck" (?), meaning meeting the wrong guys at the right moment. :biggrin:


YA I just rented Fahrenheit 9/11.. interesting stuff about all that saudi business he gets.
 
  • #64
I wonder if all the cocaine use is slowly catching up to him...
 
  • #65
I'm not too surprised, he has handled all of the pressures of the presidency quite well, which I'm sure that most of us won't be able last if given the chance.
 
  • #66
IQ enhancement isn't quite like botox injections, but I am sure it can be done. In fact that sort of enhancement is much easier than silicon or botox, just a push of a button, a slip of false information.

Nukular zzzzzzzapppppp
Nukular zzzzzzzapppppp
Nuclear, oh thank you I feel much better now.

You sure this is how IQ enhancement works? Now, I already did the maze today. It's hard work. zzzzzzzappppp
ouch that smarts, huh huh huh getting smarts isn't as easy as it is made out to be. Ooooo my hair is starting to smoke.
 
  • #67
The_Professional said:
Not to pick on Bush or anything but doesn't IQ decline with age? and how many points a year?

It will decline with the sort of brain damage induced by chronic alcohol consumption. It's very likely he was a very smart person, I'm not so sure he is anymore. A friend of mine told me he heard an old clip of him giving a speech while running for governor of TX, and he was very well-spoken, no ahs and ums, stumbling over all his words, and failing to string sentences together. It seems he used to be able to speak in public and make some sense. So, is the loss of this ability because he is acting dumb to get votes from the average Joe, or have all those years of drinking finally caught up with him?
 
  • #68
Zantra said:
still in high school? The real world doesn't operate that way. It may be cool to hate the nerds in school, but in real life they are (usually) the people running american industry and government while the "cool kids" are all at the gas stations and factories. I've seen this trend in action. I want the leader of my country to be intelligent- if Bush is smart he hides it very well, and he certainly isn't using his intelligence to run the country.


Being intellgient helps you, but it is never a good thing socially, no matter how old you are, and politics is the art of social manipulation. It is good to be smart, not to appear smart. There is a strong cultural suspiscion of intelligence, people don't typically like people who are better than them, they don't accept these people as being normal, or even similar to themselves. Sad fact of life.
 
  • #69
humanino said:
The people now think the real power is no more in politics. We used to think an alternative way was possible. I think the american responsability in establishing free market as the rule of the world today is not funny.


Socialist. Forgive our capitalism Comrade Humanino.
 
  • #70
Zantra said:
still in high school? The real world doesn't operate that way. It may be cool to hate the nerds in school, but in real life they are (usually) the people running american industry and government while the "cool kids" are all at the gas stations and factories. I've seen this trend in action. I want the leader of my country to be intelligent- if Bush is smart he hides it very well, and he certainly isn't using his intelligence to run the country.

True, but the "cool kids" working at gas stations and factories are more numerous than industry leaders, and they vote for the likeable guy, the one just like them, not the one who uses big words they can't understand. Bush speaks in very simple sentences, which are easy for the average Joe to understand. Kerry is getting better at it, but didn't start out very good at it. He would go into long, technical explanations of things that got people lost and confused, so they assumed he was just avoiding the question rather than understanding the depth of the answer being given.

I should also add that something else Bush does when speaking that helps with the average Joe voter is he talks in absolutes. Things are all black or white, no shades of gray. Kerry talks about different aspects of an issue, and speaks as he would to Congress, debating the pros and cons, addressing that there isn't always a perfect answer, but there are some better answers. This is lost on the average Joe. They see it as uncertainty. They think a leader must have all the answers all the time.
 
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  • #71
Bill Clinton's SAT score and IQ

Zoidsoft said:
when I was young, it wasn't cool to be smart...

I think this was also part of Clinton's problem in never being fully accepted as a leader... Clinton reportedly has an IQ of 137.
This message on The Eugenics List reports an SAT score of 1032 for Clinton. That maps to an Otis Gamma (SD15) IQ of 120, according to Rodrigo de la Jara's Pre-1974 SAT to IQ Conversion Table.
 
  • #72
IQ almost entirely irrelevant. Please don't confuse correlation with equivalence. For example, my IQ is much higher than average, but that simply reflects my better-than-average ability to deal with numbers and patterns. Otherwise, I would say that overall I have a below-average intelligence; certainly much lower than that of Bush or Clinton. You would surely require a high intelligence to gain and hold almost any position of power, especially the most powerful position in the world, no matter how privileged a life you have led. And so what if he's not a gifted debater or is lacking in off-the-cuff, spur-of-the-moment speaking skills? Critics of Bush are shooting themselves in the foot by attacking his intelligence and his speaking skills. This is the same sort of thoughtlessness that equates tallness or good looks or loudness with intelligence.

Attack his f**ked-up policies instead.