Is Gravity a Residual Force from Fundamental Interactions?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the nature of gravity, questioning whether it could be considered a residual force resulting from the strong, weak, and electromagnetic interactions. Participants examine the implications of gravity's relative weakness and its detectability at atomic scales, along with the properties of gravitational forces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that gravity might be a resultant force from balancing other fundamental interactions, questioning if this is an oversimplification.
  • Another participant notes that gravity's additive nature and inverse square law properties are not typical of residual forces, while also mentioning the interest in studying residual forces like Van der Waals.
  • Several participants inquire about the possibility of detecting gravity at the scale of individual atoms, specifically asking if measurements would be proportional to the number of atoms.
  • It is mentioned that while the Earth's gravitational field can affect individual atoms, the gravitational field produced by an individual atom is too weak to measure.
  • A later reply indicates that theoretically, detecting gravitational interactions between individual atoms is possible, but current instruments lack the necessary sensitivity and precision.
  • One participant raises the point that the mass of a compound differs from the sum of its component atoms due to mass defects from chemical bonds, suggesting a deeper complexity in understanding mass.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the nature of gravity and its measurement at atomic scales. There is no consensus on whether gravity can be classified as a residual force or on the feasibility of measuring gravitational effects at such small scales.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in current measurement techniques and the complexity of mass interactions in compounds, indicating unresolved questions about the nature of gravity and mass.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring theoretical physics, fundamental interactions, and the measurement of forces at atomic scales.

RobComer
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If gravity is miniscule compared to the other three interactions, could it be a kind of resultant 'force' left over from balancing the strong, weak and electromagnetic interactions? One which is then much more detectable on the larger scale, when all these tiny gravitational forces from each atom combine.
Is this a 'high school' over simplification and if so, where do I start to unravel this mystery?
 
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Note that 1) it is additive, the more mass you put, the more strong the force is. And 2) it goes as the inverse square. Such properties are not typical of residual forces.

Said that, the study of residual forces is interesting. Van der Waals etc. Also, in some sense you could look at tidal force as a residual, as it appears after you have substracted the "point-like body" gravity.
 
Thanks for the help on this one! Is it possible to detect gravity at the scale of individual atoms? So, would you be able measure it for (let's say) one atom of carbon and then for a known number in an allotrope like graphite? Would the measurement be directly proportional to the number of atoms you had? Or, are we talking about something that as yet can't be measured at this scale?
 
RobComer said:
Thanks for the help on this one! Is it possible to detect gravity at the scale of individual atoms? So, would you be able measure it for (let's say) one atom of carbon and then for a known number in an allotrope like graphite? Would the measurement be directly proportional to the number of atoms you had? Or, are we talking about something that as yet can't be measured at this scale?

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2981
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/3525

Zz.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
RobComer said:
Is it possible to detect gravity at the scale of individual atoms?
The Earth's gravitational field can be detected by observing it's affect on an individual atom (the links provided by ZapperZ), but the gravitational field that an individual atom produces cannot be detected. The former is called the passive gravitational mass of the atom and the latter is called the active gravitational mass of the atom. The active force of gravity is far too weak to measure at this scale. You can use Newton's universal law of gravitation to calculate it.
 
Last edited:
RobComer said:
Thanks for the help on this one! Is it possible to detect gravity at the scale of individual atoms? So, would you be able measure it for (let's say) one atom of carbon and then for a known number in an allotrope like graphite? Would the measurement be directly proportional to the number of atoms you had? Or, are we talking about something that as yet can't be measured at this scale?

Theoretically it would be possible to detect the gravitation between individual atoms, but not practically. Our instruments are nowhere near that sensitive and precise.

And no, the mass of a compound is different than the sum of the masses of its component atoms, because there is some mass defect due to the chemical bonds. This is because mass is not conserved, it is an artifact of something else. We don't really understand much about this.
 

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