Is gravity an inertial force or interaction force?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of gravity, specifically whether it should be classified as an inertial force or an interaction force. Participants explore this concept through various theoretical frameworks, including Newtonian physics and general relativity, while also touching on the challenges of visualizing gravity in the context of curved spacetime.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that gravity can be viewed as an inertial force, particularly in the context of general relativity, where it is described as an effect of spacetime curvature.
  • Others argue that in the Newtonian model, gravity is a true force, and they highlight the differences between inertial and interaction forces.
  • One participant notes that gravitational forces share characteristics with both inertial forces (e.g., they cannot be detected by accelerometers) and interaction forces (e.g., they can conserve momentum), leading to a nuanced classification.
  • Another participant emphasizes that gravity can be treated as equivalent to inertial forces only in limited regions of space and time, cautioning against oversimplification.
  • There is a discussion about the difficulty of visualizing gravity and curved spacetime, with some participants expressing skepticism about common representations like the "rubber sheet" analogy.
  • Participants inquire about animations or visual aids to better understand gravity in the context of curved spacetime, indicating a desire for more intuitive explanations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views on whether gravity is an inertial force or an interaction force, and the discussion remains unresolved with no consensus reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention limitations in visualizing gravity and the complexities involved in understanding curved spacetime, indicating that a deeper understanding of the underlying mathematics and concepts is necessary.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals exploring the theoretical foundations of gravity, those studying general relativity, or anyone seeking to understand the conceptual challenges associated with visualizing gravitational interactions.

Aeronautic Freek
Messages
121
Reaction score
7
We feel that Earth pull as to the ground but is Earth accelaritng up "in some way" so gravity is also inertial force??
I read that we still don't understand what is gravity...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
Physics news on Phys.org
Depends. In the Newtonian model, gravity is a true force. In relativity, "gravitational force" is an inertial force. Just like being in a car "being pressed into" your seat as you accelerate, you only feel a force because something is pressing into you and pushing you out of your inertial trajectory. That's why you can be weightless in a plane following a ballistic trajectory - look up the Vomit Comet if you haven't heard of that.

I believe at least one candidate for a quantum theory of gravity treats gravity as a true force, so the book is not yet closed.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: etotheipi
Aeronautic Freek said:
We feel that Earth pull as to the ground but is Earth accelaritng up "in some way" so gravity is also inertial force??
I read that we still don't understand what is gravity...
Gravitational forces are a bit tricky. They share the following characteristics with inertial forces:

They cannot be detected by accelerometers
They are proportional to mass
They can be removed by changing reference frames

On the other hand gravitational forces share the following characteristic with interaction forces

They can follow Newton’s third law (they can conserve momentum)

I tend to still group them with inertial forces, but it isn’t a perfect match.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: davenn, Aeronautic Freek, sophiecentaur and 3 others
It depends on the accuracy you want to describe gravity. Gravity is equivalent to inertial forces in a limited region of space and time, over which the gravitational field can be assumed to be constant. Mathematically you can always find a reference frame, where at one point in space time you can describe locally everything as if there's no gravity and spacetime is described by Minkowski space. However, that's only true to the extent you don't look at higher accuracy for deviations, i.e., the socalled tidal forces, which occur on spacetime scales over which you cannot neglect to the given accuracy the inhomogeneity of the gravitational field. This manifests itself in a non-vanishing curvature of spacetime, i.e., you can approximate this curved spacetime only locally by a flat tangent space. That's analogous to the geometry on the earth. Only locally can you describe it by a flat Euclidean plane. As soon as you look over larger distances the curvature of the Earth becomes important for navigation.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Aeronautic Freek, weirdoguy, etotheipi and 1 other person
Dale said:
Gravitational forces are a bit tricky. They share the following characteristics with inertial forces:

They cannot be detected by accelerometers
They are proportional to mass
They can be removed by changing reference frames

On the other hand gravitational forces share the following characteristic with interaction forces

They can follow Newton’s third law (they can conserve momentum)

I tend to still group them with inertial forces, but it isn’t a perfect match.
Do you have some animation how easier understand gravity with curved space time?
somethink like this..
 
Aeronautic Freek said:
Do you have some animation how easier understand gravity with curved space time?
That "rubber sheet" picture is hopelessly misleading. xkcd puts it well.

Basically, no. There is no good animation of curved spacetime because any honest representation of a pseudo-Riemannian manifold needs a book-length explanation of how it should be interpreted. In other words, you need a textbook. And you need a textbook on special relativity before you even start on general relativity.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: fresh_42, Lnewqban and etotheipi
The only really intuitive experience with the curved pseudo-Riemannian spacetime is the action of the graviational interaction itself. There's not way to visualize it in an adequate way by curved surfaces in 3D space. Though shalt not make images (other than mathematical ones)!
 
Aeronautic Freek said:
Do you have some animation how easier understand gravity with curved space time?
somethink like this..
Our member @A.T. has some excellent animations, but it is not what you think from pop-science sources.

Are you familiar with space-time diagrams? You would need to understand those first.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71 and etotheipi
Dale said:
Our member @A.T. has some excellent animations, but it is not what you think from pop-science sources.

Are you familiar with space-time diagrams? You would need to understand those first.
No I am not,also my physics basics is very poor..as everbody can see from my posts..
 
  • #10
Aeronautic Freek said:
Do you have some animation how easier understand gravity with curved space time?
somethink like this..
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Aeronautic Freek and etotheipi

Similar threads

  • · Replies 49 ·
2
Replies
49
Views
5K
  • · Replies 51 ·
2
Replies
51
Views
5K
  • · Replies 114 ·
4
Replies
114
Views
7K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K