Is Gravity Truly Omnipresent and Can It Exist Without Mass?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of gravity as a fundamental force, questioning its omnipresence and its dependence on mass. Participants explore whether gravity can exist independently of massive objects and how it compares to other fundamental forces like electromagnetism, the strong force, and the weak force. The conversation includes theoretical considerations and conceptual clarifications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why gravity is not considered omnipresent like the other fundamental forces, suggesting that mass is essential for gravity's existence.
  • Another participant argues that classical electric fields also require the presence of charge, which could be seen as a similar dependency.
  • A later reply mentions that while electromagnetic waves can exist without charges, gravitational waves can also exist without mass, introducing a nuance to the discussion.
  • One participant expands on the initial question by questioning the nature of other forces, particularly the strong and weak forces, and how they interact with particles, drawing a parallel to gravity and its mediation by gravitons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of fundamental forces and their dependencies. There is no consensus on whether gravity can exist without mass or how it compares to other forces.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express confusion regarding the definitions and interactions of fundamental forces, indicating a need for clarity on the conditions under which these forces operate.

Jake Minneman
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If Gravity is considered one of the four fundamental forces why is it not itself omnipresent? The other three forces are variables that do not rely on the existence of another thing, but in the case of gravity mass is essential to its creation. Could the force gravity exist without massive objects warping the fabric of space? When I enter space do I warp the fabric of space? If so could objects on the molecular scale revolve around me?

I did not know what section this belonged in so...
 
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As a refutation classical electric fields require the presence of charge which is "another thing".
 
WannabeNewton said:
As a refutation classical electric fields require the presence of charge which is "another thing".
To be fair, electromagnetic waves can exist without any charges at all. But then again, so can gravitational waves exist without any mass.
 
Jake Minneman said:
If Gravity is considered one of the four fundamental forces why is it not itself omnipresent? The other three forces are variables that do not rely on the existence of another thing, but in the case of gravity mass is essential to its creation. Could the force gravity exist without massive objects warping the fabric of space? When I enter space do I warp the fabric of space? If so could objects on the molecular scale revolve around me?

I did not know what section this belonged in so...

I'm not answering this question but really expanding it from my own ignorance ... what I don't understand, but what you are stating as fact, is that the other forces exist without the presence of another thing. I always thought that the strong and weak forces were forces that interact among subatomic particles. If that IS the case then what does it mean to say that these forces exists without at least two things for them to interact between? If the strong force is mediated by gluons, how is that different from gravity being mediated by gravitons? I am NOT trying here to refute what you are saying, I just don't understand it so am using it as a springboard for the related question of "do the other forces in fact exist in the absence of other things in any way differently than gravity does?".
 

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