Is H X-s-permutable in N Given X May Not Be a Subset of N?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving Lemma 2.1(1) from a specified paper, particularly focusing on the concept of X-s-permutability of a subgroup H within a group G and its implications for a normal subgroup N. The participants explore the conditions under which X may or may not be a subset of N and the ramifications of this on the proof.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proof suggesting that if H is X-s-permutable in G, then it follows that H is X-s-permutable in N, despite X not necessarily being a subset of N.
  • Another participant questions whether the condition that X must be a subset of G can be waived in this case or if it necessitates using X ∩ N, which complicates the proof since elements of X may not be in N.
  • A later reply indicates that one of the authors of the paper acknowledged a mistake in the definition and altered it to resolve the issue, although uncertainty remains about other potential errors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of X not being a subset of N, and there is no consensus on whether the original condition can be waived or if further adjustments are necessary. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the completeness of the author's corrections.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the relationship between X and N, and the need for clarity on the author's definitions and any additional corrections that may be required.

moont14263
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I want to prove Lemma 2.1(1) in this paper, the first pdf file in the page
This is my proof.
. Since H is X−s−permutable in G, then for P Sylow of G there exists x \in X such that P^{x}H=HP^{x}. The Sylow of N are of the form P∩N. Thus,(P∩N)^{x}H=H(P∩N)^{x}. Hence, H is X−s−permutable in N.

The problem is, according to the definition in the second page, that X \subseteq G but in my proof X may not be a subset of N.

Thanks in advance.
 
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moont14263 said:
I want to prove Lemma 2.1(1) in this paper, the first pdf file in the page
This is my proof.
. Since H is X−s−permutable in G, then for P Sylow of G there exists x \in X such that P^{x}H=HP^{x}. The Sylow of N are of the form P∩N. Thus,(P∩N)^{x}H=H(P∩N)^{x}. Hence, H is X−s−permutable in N.

The problem is, according to the definition in the second page, that X \subseteq G but in my proof X may not be a subset of N.

Thanks in advance.



Indeed. Then either this is a condition we can wave in this case, or else we must take X\cap N , which automatically would

make, apparently, the proof way harder as that x\in X may well not be in N.

Write the authors an email asking them about this. My experience is that most of them (even very well known and famous authors) are

pretty nice and open to answer back when asked about something in their work.

DonAntonio
 
Thanks for the advice. I'll send them an email.
 
I contacted one of the authors and he told me that there was a mistake. He just altered his definition to make things work. I do not know if there are more things that need to be fixed. I just wrote this comment to let you know. Thank you very much for every one specially DonAntonio. As you said, he was a nice guy.
 
moont14263 said:
I contacted one of the authors and he told me that there was a mistake. He just altered his definition to make things work. I do not know if there are more things that need to be fixed. I just wrote this comment to let you know. Thank you very much for every one specially DonAntonio. As you said, he was a nice guy.



I'm happy for you. It was expected that guy was a nice one: we mathematicians are lovely and lovable.

DonAntonio
 

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