Is Improving the Educational System the Key to Achieving a Perfect Economy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of a "perfect economy" and whether improving the educational system could lead to such an outcome. Participants explore various economic systems, their implications for happiness, and the feasibility of achieving universal satisfaction within any economic framework.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the definition of a "perfect economy" and how it could lead to universal happiness.
  • One participant suggests a gift economy as a potential model that could work well.
  • Another participant proposes a communistic approach where resources are equally rationed, though they express skepticism about its perfection due to inherent biases.
  • There is a viewpoint that no economic system can satisfy everyone unless there is complete consensus on its terms.
  • One participant argues that a Mixed Market Economy might be the best option for accommodating diverse needs.
  • A hypothetical scenario is presented where a city implements wealth redistribution, suggesting it could temporarily alleviate wealth scarcity.
  • Capitalism is defended by some as the only system that allows individuals to pursue their own economic happiness, despite its subjective nature.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential for monopolies and the need for government regulation to protect consumers and the environment.
  • Another participant challenges the classification of communism as an economic system, suggesting it is more accurately described as a command economy.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the feasibility of any economic system achieving universal happiness, with one noting that happiness is subjective and varies from person to person.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of competing views on what constitutes a perfect economy and whether it is achievable. There is no consensus on the best economic model or the relationship between economic systems and happiness.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight various assumptions about economic systems, including the subjective nature of happiness and the role of government regulation. The discussion reflects differing perspectives on the balance between individual entitlement and collective resource distribution.

  • #31
superweirdo said:
My point is, right now, the economy is a win loose thing. THere is competetion in everything, one looses one wins. I want a win-win economy.
You misunderstand market economics. When you buy a car from a car dealer, who loses in that transaction? The dealer gets money and you get a car.

More generally, people often think things like investing are a zero-sum game: ie, in order for one person to make money in the stock market, someone else has to lose. That simply isn't the case.
 
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  • #32
russ_watters said:
You misunderstand market economics. When you buy a car from a car dealer, who loses in that transaction? The dealer gets money and you get a car.

More generally, people often think things like investing are a zero-sum game: ie, in order for one person to make money in the stock market, someone else has to lose. That simply isn't the case.

Perhaps sw was refrerring to competition for jobs. Talent and luck - i.e. things beyond our willpower to alter, play a large part in who gets hired and who doesn't*. And the don'ts, the underemployed, are the shocktroops of crime and revolution.


*I know you don't agree with this Russ, but I believe the idea that a good salary is a reward for moral virtue is just patently wrong.
 
  • #33
I was just asking if there is a way for a perfect economy in which everyone can be happy w/ their jobs and salary.
 
  • #34
selfAdjoint said:
Perhaps sw was refrerring to competition for jobs.
Perhaps. I'm not really sure.
Talent and luck - i.e. things beyond our willpower to alter, play a large part in who gets hired and who doesn't*. And the don'ts, the underemployed, are the shocktroops of crime and revolution.

*I know you don't agree with this Russ, but I believe the idea that a good salary is a reward for moral virtue is just patently wrong.
I'm not sure I understand this part. What does moral virtue have to do with this? I do fully recognize that talent and luck play a role in who gets where in life - were you under the impression that I don't believe that?
 
  • #35
superweirdo said:
I was just asking if there is a way for a perfect economy in which everyone can be happy w/ their jobs and salary.

Everyone already can be happy with their jobs and salaries.

That doesn't necessarily mean it's a perfect economy, though.
 
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  • #36
how come? And I don't think everyone can be already happy. Since everyone wants more. But I think everyone can be neccesarily satisfied. Results in a amount of salary in which they can afford the things they wish. Which is not true in every case. For one to be boss, others have to be employees.
 
  • #37
Forgive my lateness to this topic. It has been quite a while since visiting phys forums. But here I just had to read :)

Sebas531
but I am pretty sure that uhhh...communism its not a type of economic system
Incorrect. Actually communism is a form of economic system. Economics I would teach you that ;) It is only our modern perceptions to think of communism as a governmental form which is closer to totalitarian than most.


Superweirdo
how come? And I don't think everyone can be already happy. Since everyone wants more. But I think everyone can be neccesarily satisfied. Results in a amount of salary in which they can afford the things they wish. Which is not true in every case. For one to be boss, others have to be employees.
They could be. (This does not mean that they are right now as I type...but theoretically they could be). And sure theoretically everyone could be satisfied with their salary, but there are MANY MANY other factors involved in being satisfied with the job they are doing. Their boss, the company, the position they are working, their co-workers, their location, etc, etc. All of which have nothing to do with the economy.

There have been comments in this thread about communism being a perfect economy, however it is far from it because it staunches creative ideas. It is human nature to want recognition for what they have done (whether it is in name or in the wallet). With no extra money coming in for ideas then there is no drive to create new ideas. (This is not to say that people do not have those ideas but do not follow through for lack of reward).

Pure capitalism was mentioned as well. However in a pure environment where the gment has no control over the market in any way. Try mailing a letter and see how much you think it would cost. Because you would now be doing it for a private organization or two or three. Who would keep up the roads? Private organizations that would have to get paid in order to do it? Who would pay them? Toll roads and similar functions. Billy goats and the troll come to mind.

There is no perfect economy because man is to imperfect and to variant. What makes one happy makes another sad. What makes one rich makes another dirt poor. Man is full of deceit and misgivings and with such intent at heart it immediately destroys what could be classified as perfect. But then in a purely humanistic aspect perfect is subjective. Only when holding the concept of perfect to that of a perfect being can one truly define what is perfect and what is not. Otherwise you are only applying your own human values upon it.

Sincerely
Brother Jerry
 
  • #38
I don't think a perfect economy is feasible, or even possible. a lot of humans are just too greedy or too concerned with themselves to think of others (Ex. Pharmaceutical Companies, Tobacco companies, Oil Companies, Politicians, Celebrities). In order to have an "perfect" economy, You need people who care about the welfare of others above themselves. People like that are at a premium.
 
  • #39
I believe if we can have a perfect educational system which will make all the students intregrityfull and disciplined. So once the people are perfect, so will the economy be. I have seen it in clubs that when the manager is real good, people in the club become like him, I have read this in books too. This can actually work.
 
  • #40
superweirdo said:
... a perfect educational system which will make all the students intregrityfull and disciplined. So once the people are perfect, so will the economy be.
Okay, Hitler.
 
  • #41
Superweirdo
Sure things like that can work in small environments. Communism works in small groups as well. But one thing you have to take into account is that the people that this is working on share a similar interest. People joining commune's WANT to be in a commune. People working at a club took the job. No one is there by force or anything of that nature. They share that common interest. But when you get into larger groups of people their interests, desires, goals all change and are different. There are people who do not want to live in a commune, or do not want to work in a night club.

And even if you take a look at the two examples above. If they are here in the United States then they are a micro economy within the grand economy of a free market socialistic environment. (yes we are in a simplistic state socialist economy). And even the manager at the bar has to fold to the economy of the owner of the bar. And thus following the chain up to the larger economy and so forth and so on.

Sincerely
Brother Jerry
 
  • #42
You are failing to understand one thing, whatever you learn in high school will help you in every field you go to. That specific knowledge may be a waste but it makes your mind open, faster, more creative and dynamic. Now, after graduating, you can choose what you want to be depending on your interesting by chooosing what college you want to go to. The reason I said that we need to improve the educational system is b/c the purpose of a class is to teach its subjects, still, most of the people who pass physics don't actually understand it. Things that we learn in life, things that we need to know but don't learn in school needs to be taught in school. I know if I wasn't such a library worm, I would have been idiot. There are a lot of improvements left in the educational system, since that is the basic ground brick, once that is stablished, perfect economy won't be a dream anymore, it will be a stepping stone.
 

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