Is it possible to hire a CEO for $250,000 a year?

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The discussion centers around the feasibility of hiring a CEO for $250,000 a year, contrasting it with the median CEO salary of $9.7 million, which many view as excessive. Participants argue that high CEO compensation is often justified by performance, yet it raises concerns about corporate greed and employee demotivation. Some suggest that shareholders should hold boards accountable for these salaries, while others believe that the public's criticism stems from jealousy rather than a fair assessment of value. The conversation highlights the disparity between CEO pay and that of average workers, questioning the ethics and implications of such compensation structures. Ultimately, the debate reflects broader issues of corporate governance and societal values regarding wealth distribution.
  • #91
mheslep said:
US income mobility has been addressed with more reference and detail in other threads. As one might expect with data that requires tracking people over generations the surverys are not all in agreement.

I cannot believe, that I did not let myself get sucked into that thread.

Maybe, there is hope for me...
 
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  • #92
Q_Goest said:
I agree, capitalism works.
Finally, something everyone can agree upon.

Allow inequality as long as it's fair
Q... Don't ever use the word "fair" when discussing money. It will lead to a least a full page of arguments that it is a silly word.
and doesn't allow people to take money they don't earn. Otherwise, it's theft.

Do you mean like the CEO's of GM and Chrysler, when they went bankrupt?

But going back to your first statement; "Capitalism works"

This brings back one of the few things I remember from my 2 terms of economics at university around 30 years ago: The Laffer Curve.

Now the Laffer Curve has nothing to do with what we are talking about, except in a roundabout way. So I propose a new curve. You can call it the OmCheeto Curve if you like, but I'm sure someone has thought of it before, so I'm sure it has some real name.

Anyways...

Both the topic of discussion, "Over compensated CEO's", and "the semi-recent (last 50 years) reduction in tax rates", have yielded a much publicized; "Wealth distribution inequality", perceived problem.

So what are the axes of the OmCheeto curve?(I just thought of this, this morning, so pardon me for not being prepared for my own lecture)

The Laffer Curve assigns "Tax Rate" to the x axis, and "Revenue" to the y axis.
Revenue, in the OmCheeto Curve, would be replaced with "Level of everyone's happiness".
As revenue, is what let's us all buy flowers and soup. (The first two of three nouns of the title of the book I'm supposed to write(Soup, Flowers, and ********). I cannot mention the third noun, as that seems to be the implication of this thread.)
So what about the y axis? I have decided, that like Mr. Laffer, I will call it the tax rate.
Only in the OmCheeto Curve, the tax, is CEO pay.
And since the tax rates have plummeted from 90% when I was born, the CEO's get to keep it all, yielding nothing for me.
Which I suppose, would imply that the OmCheeto Curve requires a z axis: Tax rates
Which leads me to conclude, that the curve requires another axis: Things I need to survive, aka, the w axis
Which yields the v axis: Number of companies supplying the products on the w axis.
Which implies that this is a poly-dimensional mathematical problem, which would require someone of higher math skills, than I.

--------------------
It's not that I couldn't expand on the complexity of this problem, but the sun is about to pop out, and I have better things to do with my time. (I have 5 boats, a gorgeous river, and some very real friends to attend to today)
 
  • #93
FlexGunship said:
CEOs are not paid based on productivity. Maybe this is the confusion. Their stock options are certainly based on company performance (right?), but their salary is dictated by market conditions and the availability of CEOs, not by the number of widgets produced by them or their company.

If it was possible to hire a Lou Gerstner for $250,000/year, then everyone would. But it's not possible. The Lou Gerstners of the world are not available at that price.

You could, however, get a Flex Gunship for that price. Maybe you could even get a Bacle2 for that price. But IBM, Morgan Stanley, Boeing, Toys R' Us, and Ford would look at my resume and say: "Wait, how many multi-national companies have you successfully led? None?" And I might say: "But I'm 100% certain I can do it and I'm 200% certain I could do it better than your current CEO!" And they would (correctly) respond: "I don't think so. We need more proof than that."

Really think about that. CEOs and directors are a small circle of individuals not because they're exclusionary, but out of simple necessity. The list of people who are manifestly able to run a company is very small. Much smaller than the list of people who are actually able to run a company.

These salaries exist because, if you can walk in and show proof (or better yet, be recognized) that you can keep a company going (even at a conservative and stable 2% loss) you are an asset of immense value and people are going to compete to have you. Sometimes they will offer $60 million to have you.



Real increase in salary is flat since 1973 because the "real" (private) economy has been roughly flat since then. Inflation adjusted GDP has grown an average of about 3% annually since 1970. The average inflation adjusted household income has grown about 1% annually since 1970. The average inflation adjusted tax rate increase has been about 5% annually since 1970; if you split that in half (45% of that 5% comes from corporate taxes) you see that the actual growth of wages SHOULD be about nothing (after adjusting or inflation and including increases in taxes). Essentially, every increase in inflation-adjusted GDP has been accompanied by an equivalent increase in taxes on corporations and on their employees.

Sources: (http://www.econedlink.org/lessons/index.php?lid=808&type=student, http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/growth-federal-spending , http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3822)

And a board can remove a CEO easily. It happens at a lot of companies very often (every 5 years or so). Likewise, the board can be changed out by investors or by the CEO in some cases. The book Who Says Elephants Can'T Dance is a prime example of this. If you're curious to see how an actual company goes through the process of removing a CEO and replacing him, rad that book. It's one of my favorite business books because there's a genuine narrative.



Only that no company has ever, intentionally, hired a discount CEO. If there was an example of Joe Blow the newbie CEO coming in for $45,000 and keeping a company running, then you'd have your datapoint. Granted, it wouldn't really establish a trend.

A good example are the business savants (Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, etc) who start out making nothing, but are quick to reap the benefits of their successes. They don't shy away from the rewards of being superlative.



I don't know which data you're referring to. I just went back through all of your posts in this thread. Did I miss it?

Regardless, if people are unhappy with their earnings, they should seek new employment. That's how employment market demand works. I did it when I left my previous employer, the my employer before that, and before that, and before that...

However, if there's a legitimate decrease in the value of skills in the marketplace, then there's really nothing you can do about it. Either the market is flooded with those skills, or new sources of those skills are uncovered. The U.S. used to be a manufacturing power house, until those skills were learned by others who were willing to do it cheaper... then we priced ourselves out of that market.



I suppose. I'll offer to take any senior executive position at ANY company for $250,000, right now, today.

Is the tax rate and increase you refer to the nominal rate , or the effective rate after teams of accountants have gone thru every possible loophole. Many of the top corporations; even many with a combined $160 billion in profits did not pay a dime in taxes:

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/11/03/360185/30-corporations-no-taxes/
 
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