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Fork in the road, each path leads to possibly more disappointment.

  1. Sep 11, 2010 #1


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    I'm 27 and miserable. I want to make a positive change, but the options that I have offer
    little positive and much negative. What do I do?

    Important Details:
    I am employed full-time and I have ~$13,000USD in savings, but I am deep in debt with absolutely terrible credit and my wages are being garnished. I have a bad relationship with my parents and siblings. Also, I'm very lonely as I do not have any friends.

    Options that I have:
    1. Stay at home with parents, pay for education, hope for a better future.
    2. Leave home, lose ability to pay for education, entire salary goes toward bills and food.
    3. Buy car (current car is 14yrs old and falling apart), lose ability to leave home, lose ability to pay for education.


    Ok, so lets start with my family, because I believe they are the root of the problem. If you disagree, please let me know.

    My father.
    A very selfish(narcissistic?), uneducated man who thinks he knows everything. He is very
    manipulating and controlling, especially with money. He wants to control how everyone else
    handles their finances, but will not accept advice on how to manage his own. Here is an example. When I scored my first job at 15, I refused to tell him how much money I was making. He became very angry and told me, and these are his exact words, "You're going to need me a hell of a lot sooner than I'll ever need you, remember that." I still don't why he was compelled to say such a thing, and why he was so pissed off. I mean, I was never concerned with his salary, and he would have never told me anyway.

    He was/is a part time parent and husband. He was never around during the week. There was a stretch when he was only home for about 45 minutes a day (on weekends maybe a couple hours). He would arrive home from where ever he was at 5am, then leave out for work at 5:45am. Sometimes he would come home at around 2 or 3pm to check the mail, other times he would just call and ask us to check. When he called he would never ask how we were doing or anything. He would just say "did i get any mail". He also used to yell at us alot when we were younger. So, when he did come home for whatever reason, we all just ran and hid somewhere or tried to appear busy so he would go away.

    I can go on all day about this man (and I will, if anyone is interested), but I want to share what I feel is an important story. My father likes to believe he is a great man. He makes very big promises, and never delivers on said promises. Just being able to make a (big) promise makes him feel great, even if he has no intentions on delivering. I think this is because he worked with or for highly educated persons who would tell him stories of their greatness, and he tried to mimic their behavior and actions.
    I have two sisters, and a half sister. My father would gloat repeatedly how he is such a great dad and is providing such a great life for the four of us. He would repeat these things so often, that I believed that we were actually middle class or above. In reality we were actually kind of poor. Twice, I was disciplined at elementary school because I made fun of other children for being poor, and boasted how superior my family was based on what my father told me. This continued into into junior high, and high school, and eventually ended up with me getting my whole world destroyed.

    When I was a freshman in high school, I was presented with a question by my counselor. She asked me if I were interested in going to college, and if so, which one. I had my school all picked out, and I followed all of the schools guidelines and prerequisites to gain acceptance. There was only one problem. My father made a promise to me along the lines of "You take care of the grades, and I'll handle the rest." Well I took care of the grades, and I was accepted by the school in January of my senior year. I told any and everyone who would listen. Up until high school graduation, I made sure everyone in the school knew. There was still that problem of my fathers promise of assistance. June went by, and so did July. August arrived, and so did the deadline to confirm your seat for the program. No word from my father. This particular day, he decided to stay at home. He sat upstairs in his bedroom, silently watching television. I asked my mom what the deal was, because today was the deadline. She said that I needed to go speak with him, so I did. The conversation went like this.
    Son: So, um, dad, today is the deadline, am I going to make it?
    Dad: (staring at television) I don't have the money.
    Son: (confused) What do you mean?
    Dad: (staring at television) I mean I don't have the money. I can't afford it.
    Son: But, you said, aim for the stars, and you know, I'm the space shuttle, you're the rocket boosters...I can't get there without your help.
    Dad: (silence)
    Son: I'm sorry dad, maybe I...I aimed too high.
    Dad: (silence)

    And that was the end of it. Or so I thought. My ex girlfriend called me to wish me luck on my journey, only to find out I wasn't going. That was the first time I had to tell anyone the bad news. It hurt so much, I couldn't do it again. I was afraid to go outside for fear of my neighbors asking about me leaving. I was afraid to work(retail jobs, burger joints, etc), for fear that someone I went to school with would wander in and ask me what am I doing there. I stopped speaking to my best friend out of embarrassment. I eventually found a job in December of that year, and for the 3 years that I worked there, I refused to become friends with any of the coworkers. I never shared any information about my life. I continued to hide from everyone I knew in the community. This has been going on since I was 17, I'm 27 now. Still hiding, still embarrassed. I want it to end.

    There's more to this story, but I have been preparing this post for about 2hrs now, and I feel I need to skip ahead and fill in the blanks later when/if people ask questions.

    Now, my mother.
    My mother is sort of ok. I am not happy with her being weak, gullible, and uneducated, but that is not my main issue. My problem with her is that she knew everything about my father that I needed to know so that I could make a better decision. Yet, she said nothing. Not to me, or him. She did not stand up to my father about his false hope and empty promises. She did not come clean to me about these things either. Not until 2007. Sometime in 2007 she told me that my dad had no intention of following through on that promise he made, because he did not believe I would follow through on my end. She waited 7 years, to tell me that my father did not believe in me. All of that time of me feeling like I was dead to the world...it could have been avoided. All she had to do was pull me to the side and give it to me straight with something like, "Look, do not trust that man, I know he's your father, and he said this and that, but judging by evidence x, y, and z, and the fact that he actually said he believes you won't make it, you need to find another avenue for success." But she didn't. Also, she suffered a stroke in 2008. While in rehab, concerning her nearing release date, I told her not to return home. Things became much worse while she was gone and she would not be happy at all if she came back. Yet, she did. Now all she does is complain.

    My sisters.
    My sisters are ok as well, but suffer from the same problem as my mother. They are afraid to stand up to my father and keep allowing him to guide their lives straight into the toilet. I can speak to them about things, but I often find myself angered by the fact that most of their decisions are based on bad information given by my father. For example, two of them are home owners now because my dad convinced them to do it. They did not even want houses, they were happy living in their apartments, and it was affordable. Now, both are cash strapped, one is six or seven months behind on the mortgage and had to seek assistance with a debt management company. My father even laughs about her to his friends, saying she doesn't have her priorities straight and ignores his advice. The one who isn't behind on her mortgage, I remember when my dad forced her into buying a new car. She couldn't even afford it, I had to help her pay for it. Same problem with my half sister, she was forced into buying a new car also, because my dad went up to the dealership and made a deal, and told those people she would come sign the papers. She explained she did not like the deal, and could not afford it, but my dad put on his superman-i-can-do-anything cape and said he would cover the difference. He never did. Now she is cash strapped as well, and also a home owner who didn't want a house. Also, my dad promised the three of them he would help pay for college, and did not. For my half sister, he flat out refused to sign any loan papers or share information on what he earned in a year. For my other two sisters, one was THROWN OUT of her school dormitory because she was under the impression that he actually paid the bill, and did not. My other sister was told at the very last minute that he wasn't going to pay anything, after she made very detailed plans of living with her best friend in the dormitory. She fortunately had flexible scholarships and was able to go to different school and graduate without his help.

    So, basically, this is what I am dealing with on a daily basis. I cannot stand even the sight of my father(feel free to ask me what other things he has done, the guy is a complete jerk). I can barely manage a conversion with mother because she is so weak. My sisters are only tolerable when they are on the phone and we are discussing something that my father has not put his dirty hands on yet(which isn't much).

    So, that goes back to the three decisions.
    1. Stay home, and fight insanity off for at least another 2 or 3 years while I try to finish an associates degree. Everyday is extreme challenge as I try my best to stay in my attic bedroom as long as possible and avoid my mom and dad at all costs. Sometimes when my father is around, I simply cannot function. I cannot even slice a piece of meat. I am overcome with anger and disappointment, and have to leave the area to go take deep breaths. I also cannot just up and leave when he pops in and I get angry. This is because I have to park in the driveway due to thieves stealing parts off my car at night. My father blocks me in the driveway and I cannot even speak to the man to ask him to move it. When I do ask him to move it, I just yell down into the basement for him to let me out, and then I hurry into my car before he comes up the stairs.
    2. Leave home and live in an apartment and completely wash my hands of them and all the bad memories I've endured there. Bad part is the cheapest apartment that I can find that isn't in a high crime area will consume every penny that I earn. Also, because I have bad credit, I will have to pay the entire 12 month lease up front because I don't have a cosigner. That would mean I cannot go back to college, or buy a newer used car. I don't know how long I can keep that up, I would have a food allowance of maybe 100.00 per month. What if my car dies?
    3. Buy a newer used car. The ideal car that I have found, is $11,500, assuming someone hasn't purchased it already. I can buy a cheaper used, but I do not want to side grade from a pile of scrap, to a pile of scrap with lower mileage. Buying a car means I cannot leave home because I will not be able to cover the rental costs up front (see #2). Also, cannot pay for college.

    So, there you go. Sorry if things are patchy, it took me 3hrs to post this. If you are unclear about anything, please ask me about it. If you would like to offer advice, if it helps you at all, I would like to make a friend more than anything else. Please ask me questions, because I have been drawing up (failed) plans for 10 years, and I think I have possibly considered everything...even suicide(don't worry, I can't do it). :frown:
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2010
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  3. Sep 12, 2010 #2

    Math Is Hard

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    Maybe I missed something. It's a lot to go through. You've been living with your parents for 10 years and somehow you racked up a bunch of debt and bad credit? It seems like if you were living in misery you would at least be socking away a lot of money. Why aren't you using your savings to pay off your debt?
    Is an associates degree really that expensive? It's something like $22 per unit to earn one from a community college in California. Very doable here.
  4. Sep 12, 2010 #3


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    Thanks for your reply.
    In the first 3 or 4 years I racked up debt trying to attend a University and a for profit college while working. I dropped out of both. I used credit cards to pay for books and tuition at the University, and had government loans and sallie mae loans for the for profit college. I tried to repay those debts but I did not have a great job, and then the location closed down and I had difficulty making the payments. I was able to find more work, but it was mostly enough to feed myself and pay for car repairs.

    My debt is somewhere between $25,000 to $30,000. I am not using my savings to pay off my debt because it seems pointless considering my goals. If I pay off my debt in full (not likely considering the amount) or on a payment plan, I cannot leave home because I will not be earning enough money to pay for an apartment. If were to pay $500 per month for 5 years, I would be debt free, and earning about 2.00 more than I am now due to having no degree/trade skills. Then I could finish community community college...at 32-34 years of age while still living with my parents. Then there is my car to be considered, I may need to buy a newer one before winter hits.

    The community college here is $122 per unit. I just got a refund for one class and it was $638.00. I have about 20 units so far, so I imagine it will cost maybe $6,000 to finish the program.

    Thanks again for your reply.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2010
  5. Sep 12, 2010 #4

    Math Is Hard

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    hmm.. all that money and you are still 2-3 years away from an associates degree? Something is not right here. Assuming you weren't registering for and then dropping or failing all your classes, I would be searching for class action suits. I hope that at least some of those units you earned were transferable to a cc associates program.

    It sounds like you biggest priority is to get a stable, manageable life: to get on your feet, get a plan to pay off debt, get a place to live, and get a decent car (unless you can take the bus as an alternative). Don't just look at apartments, look at rooms for rent and roommate opportunities. This could be a cheaper option. I think you might be able to gain a lot of perspective (and tranquility) through independence.

    If you can't go back to school right now, it's not so bad. It's always waiting for you. And you can take a little at a time if you need to.

    P.S. Parents are human beings and therefore fallible, and not always cut out to be parents. It's a crap shoot. Some of us just have to make things happen for ourselves.
  6. Sep 12, 2010 #5


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    About the debt, for the first University I went to, i failed all my classes. I only owe the school about $900.00. I paid for the rest with credit cards. The second school was a for profit school, and was much more expensive. I finished 12 units, then quit during the second semester. I borrowed maybe $12,000.00. I dropped out in May 2002, and I was only allowed to defer payments so long. I believe I stopped paying on the loans in about 2004 because I had difficulty holding down a job.
    So, I owe that $900.00, plus $12,000 plus interest plus collection fees, then there are the three credit cards I maxed out on car repairs, books and tuition at about $10,000 or so plus collection fees and interest. That puts me in the 20s, near 30. The units from the for profit school are non-transferable.

    About the stable manageable independent life, yeah that's the whole point. Everything you've just said, I've been trying for 10 years (except the roommate thing, I'm not willing to accept that because after all this time, I want my own space, I don't want to share with anyone). I actually do have a plan to achieve all of those things. Here it is.

    Committing myself to my studies ------------Every Day----------------------------->
    Keep job -> Finish CC (2yrs) -> Find better job (x yrs) -> Debt Repaid (5yrs) -> My own Life
    Prudent Dieting and Exercise ----------------Every Day----------------------------->

    Problem is, everyday is a challenge. I wake up, and have to deal with my disabled mother, and a-hole father. I could have a great dream about having a great day. I go downstairs, and I become instantly deeply depressed. Sometimes I feel bad just hearing her walking around down there. Then there is the sound of my fathers voice, just makes me so sick. I get home from work, my mom is there waiting for me. Sometimes I don't speak to her, and I feel bad. I feel I should have some dignity and just go live in a hotel somewhere instead of not speaking to her. I don't hate her, I just wish she had taken better care of herself and actually had a life. Now she just sits at home watching tv waiting for me to come home from work.

    And for what its worth, when I bought my first beer, I felt so terrible afterward. I mean, how much more pathetic can it get than sitting alone in your parents basement drinking beer? I always imagined it happening with a group of friends all laughing and having a good time while eating a steak dinner. I never drunk alcohol again.

    And your last part about parents, my parents only got married for the tax benefits. Her and my dad already had my two sisters, and his father talked him into getting married, and he learned of the tax benefits.

    Sorry for ranting, I don't have anyone to talk to, so I just keep going. :frown:
  7. Sep 12, 2010 #6
    Dude, you're 27 and don't need to be livin' with your parents. You got 13,000 right? Don't blow it. I absolutely do not believe the only apartment you can find requires 12 months in advance. You keep looking until you find a decent one, say 500-600 a month that only requires down payment, and first month rent up front and you know what, just flat-out lie about anything on that lease you sign that makes you look bad.

    So yes, I suggest you move out, get an apartment like other folks, then contact all the people you owe money and start a monthly payment plan to pay them back. Find a job, get a cheap used car and also I do not believe 11,500 is the cheapest you can find. Really, you can get one for about $2000 if you're willing to put up with it and learn how to fix minor things on it.

    Tough working and going to school. If you can handle it ok, otherwise, put school on hold until you can stabilize yourself in an independent existence away from your folks.

    Also, sometimes when you move away from them, you start to dislike them less because they're not always around you.
  8. Sep 12, 2010 #7
    I dont wish to sound insentive, but you seem to be blaming everyone else for all your life problems, it wasn't your father that forced you to rack up all that debt, you are the one that ruined your fiances, not your father. You need to take responsibility for your actions and the damage you've caused to your life.

    After reading your post's you also seem to have some sense of entitlement

    "My father was supposed to pay for all of my education"

    "I've been trying for 10 years (except the roommate thing, I'm not willing to accept that because after all this time, I want my own space, I don't want to share with anyone)."

    It would be realistic to just live at home while you pay off your debt, but if you honestly hate living there that much then you should be open to living with a roommate because you can not afford to live on your own.

    Again not to be harsh, but I think a frank assessment of your life decisions and current situation is badly needed.
  9. Sep 12, 2010 #8


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    I more or less or agree with some of the previous post, however I'd phrase it differently.

    At 27, and given that one holds a job, then one must step up and take responsibility for one's actions, including financial decisions. Borrowing money, and then not repaying that money is unacceptable, just as making a promise to fulfill an obligation and then choosing not to do so is unacceptable.

    If one has poor credit then one might consider bankruptcy, but that shouldn't absolve one from repaying one's debts.

    Now in the current situation, consider repaying the $900 to the university, assuming that is all that is owed. Ostensibly, that one matter is resolved. For the others, as the previous post indicated, work on a payment plan to retire that debt. If one is paying collection fees, then that usually indicates that one did not try to resolve the matter with the original creditors. Credit collection agencies impose stiff fines, fees and charge high interest rates.

    As for living quarters, move out, find a cheap apartment or room in a house, perhaps with one's sisters.

    I note one striking contradiction, one wants one's own space and is not wishing to share said space, yet one has no one to talk to, so one reaches out to strangers for consultation or consolation.
  10. Sep 12, 2010 #9


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    About the apartment, I have bad credit, and they won't make a lease agreement with me unless I have a cosigner or I pay in full up front. A person can't lie because a credit check will be done. The places that do not do credit checks can raise the rent anytime they want, I cannot afford that.

    About finding an apartment, setting up a payment plan, and getting a cheap used car. I currently cannot afford that. My salary after taxes is $266.xx per week. I was recently garnished for 90 days that had my salary down to $198.xx per week. On September 16 I will be garnished again by a different company until the debt is paid in full. So, I will be earning ~$800.00 per month. The creditors I have will only allow a maximum of four years to pay off the debt if I agree to a plan. I have consulted with a debt management professional, and this was explained to me because I am being sued and I have to go to court to make the deal. As far as the cheap used car is concerned, I have already made that mistake. I've probably put more money into the thing than it originally cost when it was sold at retail.
    I cannot afford to waste my savings because it is all I have. I wanted to use it to pay for college, so I can hopefully find a better job. I cannot afford to buy a "fixer upper" car because I cannot afford "fixer up" repeatedly. Also, the payment plans for my creditors, I am helping my parents with the household expenses. I am only making enough money to feed myself and save about 200.00 a month if I only eat oatmeal and maybe brown rice and some eggs.

    I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm being negative, and shooting down everything you send up. Its just that at my last job before I was laid off, I literally sat down and ran the numbers on all of these ideas, and none are feasible. They aren't impossible, but like my thread title states, each path offers more negative than positive, and I don't know which one to take.

    Thank you for your reply, jackmell.
  11. Sep 12, 2010 #10
    Ain't no fun livin' with parents dawg. Wouldn't live with mine. No, not my parents, I mean my children.

    Also, ask Suze Orman about your problem. Google her.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2010
  12. Sep 12, 2010 #11


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    You are not sounding insensitive, you are right. My problem with my father is that he did a little brainwashing while we were children, and that led me to make the bad decision of trusting him. I was too young to know any better. I believed everything he told me simply because he was my father and thought he would never lie to me. I fault him for that, not for refusing to pay for my education. If I had known ahead of time that I would be own my own in that regard, I would have made arrangements. But, I seriously thought this man could actually help me. His salary was a big secret, he never told anyone, not even my mom. He always did the taxes himself, my mom was not involved. He bought(leased I assume) new cars all the time, boats, motorcycles, went on trips around the country just to play golf and other things. As a little kid, seeing these things, and hearing him speak about how its so easy for him to do because he is so great, I believed all of it. I wasn't smart enough to realize that he was faking it to "keep up with the joneses".

    Im 100% responsible for the debt I have accumulated. I understand and accept that. I don't have a problem with paying, I just have trouble sticking with a plan at the moment due to my low salary. I have only been working this job for 6 months. The savings that I have, is all that I have. If I use it to pay down the debts, I lose the ability to finish college, then that means I will continue on with no job/trade skills, meaning no higher paying job. If I pay down the debts with my savings, then lose my job to a layoff again, what will I do? I've already collected more than a years worth of unemployment benefits, I'm sure they won't me do that again for a while.

    About the roommate thing, I maybe was a little to harsh there. I could accept having a roommate, but I've been dreaming of complete independence for so long, a roommate seems like a halfway point. I'm looking for peace of mind from people causing me to be angered, and if I have a roommate who pisses me off, I imagine it will be similar to my current situation. I will research it though, I honestly have never looked it up, I just dismissed it as as a path not leading to my goal.

    About the life assessment, I have done that, that's the meaning of this thread. I've considered most if not all of the mistakes that I've made over the past 10 years, and came up with solutions on how not to repeat them. But unfortunately the best I can come with is the three choices that I have shared. I guess finding a roommate can be choice #4, but I'll have to run the numbers on that weigh the pros and cons.

    Thank you for your reply, anubis01.
  13. Sep 12, 2010 #12
    Anything that you decide to do will hinge on taking a risk. That's life. You have to gamble at one point or another.

    What I would do is move to another city, or state and start from scratch. It's going to be a tough, and nerve eating time. Sleep in your car, and in motels until you find an apartment. Use online room mate finder to find a place. Most room mates don't bite. And it's a good opportunity to make a new friend too.

    Average room mate costs like $450 a month. So that's like 5 grand taken away form your savings in one year. But you can do alot in one year. Then focus on finding a job to get some income flowing.

    Check out local colleges, and see a financial advisor. Also see a psychiatrist or a shrink to unload the garbage from the past on, I think that should be the first thing you should do. It will feel so much better. Otherwise if you keep this crap inside it will eat you away.
  14. Sep 12, 2010 #13


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    About borrowing money and not repaying, I understand that completely. At the time that I borrowed, I was working part time earning $7.50 per hour. I was working this job when I quit the University, and when I quit the for profit school. Then the location closed down and it was one month before I found temp job that lasted 90 days. Then after that I found a Christmas position that ended in January of the next year. After that I was a janitor for maybe 60 days then I quit because the (small) business owner was engaging in tax evasion schemes. I got really lucky after that because my sister helped me get a job at her company working in the warehouse at $9.xx per hour, and a raise to $10.08 per hour after 90 days, the most I have ever earned. Then I was laid off after 18 months due to the automotive industry crisis here in Michigan. I have rebounded at another warehouse job and have been working for 6 months.

    With that off an on work history, do you sort of understand the difficulty of making payments to ever increasing debts? Yes I stopped paying early on, in about 2004, but quite then I quite literally had nothing. My sisters were feeding me. I could have paid when I was earning the $10.08 per hour full time, and while I was unemployed after being laid off, but what was the point? I had absolutely nothing before I got that job, and decided I need to start putting something away so I can go to college. So I decided to continue not paying.
    I understand that it was possibly a bad decision to make, but it was a decision that I thought about for a while, and followed through on after considering the pros and cons. Those people will get the money I borrowed from them, and I will not file bankruptcy (see my replay to Math is Hard).

    And in a little more detail, I have drawn up a plan considering bankruptcy. Because I know that I cannot discharge student loans, the plan was to discharge the judgments and back city taxes, and pay off the student loans with my savings. That would put me at Option #2 in the OP. Assuming I was able to even find a decent apartment that isn't in a high crime area that does not require a credit check. No reason to do Option #1 if I can only save 200.00 a month by eating oatmeal and brown rice. Might as well spend that that 200.00 on electricity and natural gas.

    About the repaying of debts, I think I explained that a couple paragraphs up, and in my reply to anubis01.

    About moving out, I've considered that but I would prefer to be in position that didn't require me crawling back to my parents if something went wrong. For example, I lose my job again to a layoff. I will not be able to keep the room or cheap apartment I am renting. Of the three sisters that I have, only one is suitable for living with. I have asked her twice if I could stay with her, and she did not answer. The first time I asked her, she let her boyfriend move in. The second time I asked her, she got herself a second dog. So I guess she is trying to be polite and use the excuse that she doesn't have any space. She has recently thrown her boyfriend out and ended the relationship, but I don't think I will ask her again. My other two sisters, one lives in a high crime area and is in the process of finding another home after numerous break ins, and the other is very weak like my mother. I've not asked her if I can stay at her house because I know she will say yes even if she does not want me to stay there. I do not wish to take advantage of her like my father has.

    Also, the other problem, my father has a key to all of their homes, and shows up whenever he wants. He does this often because he is retired and has nothing to do, and does not want to stay at home with my mother. What good would it be for me to stay at either of their homes, if this jerk just shows up whenever he wants, and I cannot stand the sight of him? I will not have truly escaped this evil man, and again its a halfway point or path not leading to the goal. Although I have considered it, and asked, but I was turned down.

    Your last part about the contradiction, yes I would prefer it to be me living alone, without a roommate of any kind. I don't want to be ALONE, but I would like to have the option of inviting people into my life, instead of being stuck with someone. Yes the roommate could be "someone to talk to" as I am seeking, but I would like to be alone knowing that I can shut people out and not be bothered from time to time. I hope that is clear enough.

    Thank you for your reply, Astronuc.
  15. Sep 12, 2010 #14


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    I understand one's situation better with the elaboration through responses. At the time that one could not make payments, that would be the time to reschedule debt. Usually working with creditors will work. Many people just assume the opposite, and do nothing. That's when debt collection agencies get involved. They usually buy debt at discount and make a profit of what they collect and what they paid, so they are usually less reasonable than the original creditors.

    Being sued doesn't help. Perhaps one can contact the lawyer(s) of the creditors/debt collectors. In addition to garnishing wages, they could conceivably have one's bank accounts seized (depending on federal/state/local laws).

    Living at home would in theory save money, but can one function and be productive. It would be prudent to discuss the matter with one's sisters, but all together rather than individually, and perhaps others, e.g., social services. One needs to confiscate keys from one's father or change the locks. Parents should not show up unannounced at the homes of their children. I would not show up at my parents house unannounced and expect them to provide shelter. On the other hand, I live about 1800 miles from my parents.

    I know several people with multiple 2, 3 or 4 jobs. That's necessary if one does not have a professional degree or a union job in construction or manufacturing.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2010
  16. Sep 12, 2010 #15


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    Well, the job I have is 21 miles from my parents house. The apartments I searched are either in that area, or further. So that is similar to (or exactly) your idea of moving to another city. I agree that most roommates aren't psycho killers that will cut your toes off while sleeping. :smile:, I was just hoping I can get to a point where its just me, myself, and I standing strong on my own two feet. What I fear is the situation not working out, and I have to return home to my parents.

    I spoke with a financial adviser when I visited a debt management company in April 2009. The only thing I gained from that visit was that if I don't seek bankruptcy, the creditors will only allow me four years to repay the debt. She also said I can simply just send them whatever I wanted, and they WILL cash the check, but because I am being sued I will have to go to court eventually to settle the judgments.

    As far as a psychiatrist is concerned, my job offers free visits to get that kind of help I believe. I think its mostly for substance abuse or something like that, I'm not sure I have not called and asked exactly what the service is for. I have not tried a psychiatrist simply for the fact that it does not help remove me from my parents household. Sure, I can lay out all of my problems and worries on this person, and learn to do breathing exercises, but at the end of the day where do I go? Back to my parents house.
    I don't exactly know what the measure of a man is, but I'm certain it is not a person earning $8.50 per hour hiding in his parents attic everyday.
  17. Sep 12, 2010 #16
    The problem is that you are trying to logically plan too much ahead. If it doesn't work out with one room mate, you can still find another one, and don't have to move back. The key is try to something new. Only then will new opportunities present themselves which you had no idea about.

    From what I've been able to pick up, you try to avoid other people, because you are afraid somebody will find out about your past. That's why you are trying to avoid a room mate, even though it's a better option than living alone - financially speaking.

    That's why I've suggested seeing a shrink so you can unload your crap from the past and be free, otherwise you will keep avoiding people, and will repeat this cycle.
  18. Sep 12, 2010 #17


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    I contacted one of the lawyers when I got my previous job, and the guy basically wanted me to give my entire salary to him. I'm not sure he was a lawyer at all. I think I made a mistake by speaking to him. I was happy to have a job, and was very eager to pay. Then the guy said he wants my entire salary, so I decided not to continue with the conversation. I didn't bother calling any of the other lawyers, assuming they were all sharks ready to devour me. I probably should have, but now I don't have a choice since I have to go to court anyway. Also, the financial adviser explained to me that if the creditors wanted to take it to the extreme, they could seize my bank account. That's why I have those three options in the OP. I seemingly HAVE to spend the money(on education, a home, or a car), but I do not gain much with either choice.
    Some of the letters that they mailed were actually reasonable, offering up to %60 discounts if i paid in a lump sum. Sadly, I could not do it because I would have been left with nothing, and my situation would not have changed at all for the better.

    About discussing the living situation with my sisters as a group, I have tried. My half sister gave me a guilt trip by saying "you can't just leave her", concerning my disabled mother. My other two sisters disagreed with her, but did not offer me assistance of any kind. They care, but not enough to let me live them. I have shared with them, individually and as a group, my plan to solve the problems and gain one or two professional degrees. Unfortunately is has been fruitless. I guess they believe I will be sitting around their house watching tv all day and being a burden. Or maybe they do not want to share their success with me. That is not what I want. I would like to execute the plan, and then move on with my life. I imagine they see it differently than I do.

    As far as social services, Section 8 housing is most commonly available with apartment buildings in high crime areas. The nicer places choose not to participate in the Section 8 program.

    About confiscating keys from our father, I've tried to convince my sisters to do it, but they are afraid to ask for them. I suggested they change the locks, but they fear it will anger the man and he will no longer "like" them.
    Last month, one of my sisters, the weaker one, allowed her boyfriend to sleep over. He is a truck driver, so I guess he starts his day later in the evening, so he sleep in late. While my sister was at work, and her boyfriend was sleeping, my father walked into her home unannounced. I do not know what words were exchanged between my father and that man, but her boyfriend ended the relationship that same day. My father went on to tell my sister something to the effect of "I don't care who is at your house, I'm still going to come over when I want". I don't know if that was the exact quote, but I have heard repeated twice from my sisters.

    My other sister, the sort of stronger one, recently ended her relationship with her live in boyfriend. The guy did not return her house key, so she had the locks changed. I suggested that she not give her father the new key so that should could kill two birds with one stone. Unfortunately, she allowed my father to set up a deal with the locksmith to have the new set of keys open the locks to both her and my other sisters house, because it's more convenient for him. She refuses to have the locks changed again out of fear of angering the man.

    About working 2, 3 or 4 jobs. I have considered that as well. I have decided against it because considering my goal, it is not worth it. The best I can do is get a part time retail job and earn maybe $400.00 per month if I'm lucky. If those wages are not garnished, I can send that plus another $100.00 to my creditors for 5 years to have my debt repaid in full. End result would be a clean slate, but I would be maybe 33 years old then, and still living with my parents. If I did not have to buy a car in that time frame I would still have my savings to pay for an education, then I would be 35 years of age, living with my parents, while looking for a higher paying job in a state with the highest unemployment rate in the nation.

    Every decision I can make, leads to gloom and doom it appears. I don't know what to do.

    Thank you for your reply.
  19. Sep 12, 2010 #18


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    About finding a roommate, thank you, this is becoming clearer and more positive. I will research this.

    About me avoiding other people, yes you are correct, I am still very embarrassed about my past. In extreme situations where I'm forced to reveal information, I will tell a lie. I had a phys ed. class at my community college last year, and I had to exercise in a room with all of my classmates. I became very nervous with people asking me questions and I quickly asked the instructor if I could go home. The instructor has a Masters in Psychology so she immediately identified that I had a problem, and asked to speak with me privately. I told her about my past and she offered some solutions (seeking a real therapist, and other things). But after that conversation I had trouble participating in class knowing that she knew about my past. It felt better knowing that people had no idea what was going in my life and I could easily tell a lie.

    I can seek out a therapist, and unload all this stuff, but I do not know if I will be "free" as you say. I will have to return to work and earn my $8.50 per hour, return home to my disabled mother and self serving father, keep watching as my debt becomes almost insurmountable, watch as my sisters continue to suffer from my fathers psychological abuse... These things will not change after I speak to a therapist or whoever. I need "out of sight out of mind". But I do not know how to achieve it. (I know, find a roommate! I will research it, I swear!)

    Thank you for your reply.
  20. Sep 15, 2010 #19
    Ironically, when enough men have the guts to hide in their parents attic everyday, the resulting glut in housing will be so great that the market will completely crash and all those hiding men will have their pick of housing.
  21. Sep 15, 2010 #20


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    Well, I've done a little reading about about roommates, and apparently I'm boned. Poor credit histories are deal breakers just like with a regular landlord. Yes it should have been obvious, but like I said earlier I never even considered being someones roommate as an option. Well, back to the drawing board, I guess.

    As an aside, at my job I feel confident and strong, happy enough to smile most of the time. When I get in my car on my way home, it feels like I'm driving to my death. When I arrived home today, I was instantly depressed. My lunch bag fell off the counter top and my reusable ice cubes fell out. I felt as if the world were going to end that very second.
    I felt a little better once I got into the attic. But I wish I were back at work. :frown:
  22. Sep 16, 2010 #21
    I sometimes feel that life is nothing more than keeping my body healthy so I can live as long as possible for the people who might need me at some point in the future, and otherwise just wait for death while prolonging life as long as possible. Still, you have to figure bad times can't last forever because there is too much latent potential for it to go endlessly un(der)utilized. The trick I've been working on is to see the future of what will cause that potential to open up, which includes understanding why it is constrained at present.
  23. May 17, 2011 #22
    I'm sorry but I get the impression that you are just whining.. Honestly your story made me kind of depressed.

    Here is what ya should do: Join the military and get a stable life. It'l teach you discipline and the value of hard work. Maybe after 5-6 years you are ready to get a proper education.

    sorry for bumping this thread and sorry for seeming harsh..
  24. May 21, 2011 #23


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    I was whining, that was the point of the thread, to find a way to stop whining.

    As far as the military, I've considered it, but I don't think it will solve my problem. I have no problem with discipline or hard work. My problem is not having enough patience, and being a perfectionist. I've realized that I dug this hole all by myself, because I was not willing to accept anything but the target I was aiming for. For 11 years now I've tried to hit that mark, and I've lost so very much in the process. I am now changing my attitude so that I can accept who I am right now, instead of who I think I am supposed to be.

    Thanks for bumping this thread, because I did not give proper thanks to Brainstorm for his/her last post. Brainstorm your last sentence really helped me put things in perspective. Thanks for contributing.
  25. May 22, 2011 #24
    Thing is, lack of patience is just lack of discipline. Perfectionism, when taken too far, is a disease.

    From what I can see, you not joining the military is just a result of lazyness. I mean, sorry, but you live in your parent's basements for craps sake.. I also noticed how said you'd like to exercise in the future, not now. Classic example of sloth.

    Well so my last post on this matter is, just join the military. Pay off your oldest debts with your savings and just enlist for a 5 year tour or something. **** it all, start anew. You can't continue living like this!

    There are plenty of professions you could choose from (like cook or mechanic or you could even stay in the army), as well as making many contacts. You'd get in shape, both physically and mentally.

    I've had relatives who were in the army (Soviet one) and they're hard people. + In the USA it should be much better than in Russia. And maybe even better than being in the Norwegian (where I live) military, where I will be soon conscripted.
    Last edited: May 22, 2011
  26. May 22, 2011 #25
    Seriously, give this some thought. I've known enlisted men in the Air Force (aka the Chair Force) who said it wasn't much different from having a 9-5 job. There are hundreds of different jobs that you could do. With housing, food, medical, etc. all paid for by your rich Uncle Sam, you could really pile up some savings. And with the right training (you do have some choice about what your job will be) you could learn job skills that would serve you well as a civilian.

    Just think, if you made the decision today, within a few weeks you could be completely free from your current situation.

    My concern is that staying in that situation could send you into a downward spiral that might be difficult to pull out of.

    Okay, one more suggestion: law enforcement. Again, there are many different jobs within a law enforcement agency. You can find your niche. Plus, it's a 'real' job that will give you back your self-respect. The starting pay is typically $30-35,000 and it goes way up from there. My sheriff deputy friend makes $55,000 plus. And unlike the military, you can just quit if you don't like it.

    An often overlooked area of law enforcement is the federal and state Fish and Wildlife agencies. If you like the outdoors then a job with one of those agencies could give you a very nice quality of life. And, of course, they have many jobs other than law enforcement. For instance, the Division of Forestry has technician positions that don't require a college degree.

    What we are trying to say is that you can find your way out of the labyrinth that you are in if you are willing to think and do things differently.

    As Yogi Berra said, "When you come to a fork in the road, take it!"
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