Job Skills Is it too late to pursue a career in computer science at 47?

[symbolipoint]

so basically what you're saying is employer would pick a younger person over a 30 year old? Did I miss something from this post?

Not so likely with that example. Age 30 not much different than Age 27; more important is what the candidate knows how to do and what the candidate understands. Bosses start to feel insecure when a candidate is at higher risk of dementia, physical limitations, or other health & medical risks.

 

[Choppy]

so basically what you're saying is employer would pick a younger person over a 30 year old? Did I miss something from this post?

That's not what I'm saying.

Argh. I need to be more careful. Apologies to all if my meaning was misconstrued.

First, we need to establish whether there is any objective evidence of age-related bias in hiring between candidates in their early twenties being favoured over candidates over thirty for entry level positions in entry-level STEM positions. The only evidence I can find is anecdotal, for example this (dated?) blogpost. And generally speaking, ageism is illegal, which means there's a pressure acting against it in any overt sense.

So at best, it's uncertain whether "under 30 favouritism" exists in today's (or in your case future) hiring environment. And then, even if it does exist, to V50's point, there's the question of how much weight it carries in determining the outcome of a job competition?

In most cases I highly doubt it would carry much weight at all, when compared to other factors such as your skill set, experience, education, etc.

Also, you're going to turn 30 anyway.

 

[Vanadium 50]

reddit

You can find someone one reddit with any position on any topic whatsoever.

 

[Locrian]

So first let me say I think the demand for CS is so ridiculously high that ageism isn't a thing until you're 65. And maybe not then. That's just my opinion, and is based on second hand experience. I wouldn't mention it except I want to tell a story.

The story isn't even CS, but I do think it fits the topic. Humor me?

I recently interviewed at Shopify. I'm not exactly looking to move, but I do believe in the philosophy of Always Be Interviewing, and where I am isn't perfect. So why not.

Shopify has what they call a "Life Story Interview", which is billed as "A one hour, conversation-style interview with a recruiter." Should be easy!

It went roughly (I'm leaving out chunks) like this:

Interviewer: Tell me about the very first job you ever had.
Me: [Describes an early high school job I had 30 years ago]
Interviewer: So that is what piqued your interest in data science?
Me: [Thinking to myself that data science didn't exist 30 years ago] No. . . though I guess it's why I like computers?
Interviewer: Yes let's talk about that, was CS or Stats your major entering college?
Me: Entering college? No that was engineering.
Interviewer: So tell me about your engineering degree.
Me: No, my degree initially was engineering, but the degree I earned was in physics.
Interviewer: So tell me about your work in physics.
Me: [Describes what I did for a paycheck in physics]
Interviewer: That's great. Tell me how that led to Data Science.
Me: Well, that led to actuarial work, which led to DS.
Interviewer: Tell me about your first actuarial job.
Me: Well, my first actuarial-
Interviewer: TIMES UP

When someone asks me "How did you get where you are", I have a short, succinct answer to give. But above I answered the questions honestly. Which was clearly a mistake, right? But aside from directly lying, it's kinda hard to answer the questions I was directly asked.

After thinking about it a bit, my take is that I'm just too darn old for the Shopify Life Story interview. The same questions that work great for a 25 year old simply do not work for me. It's not quite ageism, but I did feel penalized due to the amount of experience I had.

And so I'm not a fan.

 

[symbolipoint]

When someone asks me "How did you get where you are", I have a short, succinct answer to give. But above I answered the questions honestly. Which was clearly a mistake, right?

No! You did well. You are trying to illustrate how the interview went by trying to make a possible representing transcript of it, and that can be difficult. As you give the process, the interviewer broke the parts of the topic into too many. If the "Times Up" point was truly the whole interview, then the interviewer did nearly nothing to learn about your skills and formed concepts.

 

[symbolipoint]

After thinking about it a bit, my take is that I'm just too darn old for the Shopify Life Story interview. The same questions that work great for a 25 year old simply do not work for me. It's not quite ageism, but I did feel penalized due to the amount of experience I had.

And so I'm not a fan.

I still believe you did well. One thing you MIGHT want to do differently, is the actually TRY to state some parts of your pre-composed "Tell me about yourself" history. This could allow you to pick certains to say and also give some associated detail with it/them. This way, you could make the interviewer both listen and stall a little before asking his next question; OR your responses may lead the interviewer to a next question which you might answer impressively.

 

[Jody]

Haha reminds me of my last interview looked something like this over the phone though

Spoiler

Hopefully everyone has seen Office Space

Interviews are a two way street. I'm interviewing them too. If the interview goes like above and same for the person describing their Spotify experience: I'm out; it's not a good fit for me neither and I'm not interested.

 

[symbolipoint]

Haha reminds me of my last interview looked something like this over the phone though

View attachment 304027

Spoiler

Hopefully everyone has seen Office Space

Interviews are a two way street. I'm interviewing them too. If the interview goes like above and same for the person describing their Spotify experience: I'm out; it's not a good fit for me neither and I'm not interested.

figuring how to interview the interviewer is more difficult (at least for me) than to present the candidate's "tell me about yourself" story and discussion.

If at least candidate does have two or three questions he thought of before hand to ask of the interviewer - this is very good!

 

[swampwiz]

I'm 27 and I'm currently attending an online university for compsci. I did the math recently and I won't get my degree until I'm almost 30. Is it still possible for me to find jobs once I graduate?

FWIW, I didn't become an unemployable programmer until I was about 36.

 

[StatGuy2000]

FWIW, I didn't become an unemployable programmer until I was about 36.

@swampwiz , if you don't mind my sharing this, what do you do for a living now? You stated that you became an unemployable programmer when you were about 36. What did you end up doing afterwards?

Feel free to PM me if you don't feel comfortable answering in this thread.

 

[swampwiz]

@swampwiz , if you don't mind my sharing this, what do you do for a living now? You stated that you became an unemployable programmer when you were about 36. What did you end up doing afterwards?

Feel free to PM me if you don't feel comfortable answering in this thread.

I've been "very early retired" since then, living a lifestyle that I call College Poverty Plus, living off of my 401K/IRA, and now a small pension from a former employer. I guess I could say that I teach English abroad, but that is only to pay for the travel, so that is really a "working hobby".

 

[StatGuy2000]

I've been "very early retired" since then, living a lifestyle that I call College Poverty Plus, living off of my 401K/IRA, and now a small pension from a former employer. I guess I could say that I teach English abroad, but that is only to pay for the travel, so that is really a "working hobby".

Do you plan on retraining or otherwise seek to pursue another career path at this stage? I suppose I'm asking because 36 is very young to "retire". I am currently 47 and I still see myself being able to work for about another 20 years or more either as a statistician or in some director/management level.

 

[swampwiz]

Do you plan on retraining or otherwise seek to pursue another career path at this stage? I suppose I'm asking because 36 is very young to "retire". I am currently 47 and I still see myself being able to work for about another 20 years or more either as a statistician or in some director/management level.

This was 20 years ago for me, so I'll presume that you are asking this of myself back in that time. Because of a major disaster that destroyed my home, I had other things on my mind then working or retooling. When that got finished, I was looking straight into the Great Recession, and went 0-14 on job interviews, so I gave up on getting work in my exact field (.NET front-end development).

I started to look at the upcoming field of business analytics & data science, and considered going back to my State U for a full year for an MS in that, which would have cost not only the (in-state) tuition but also getting place near campus. It was about that time that I assessed my total situation and came to the conclusion that my finances were decent enough that I could stay "retired", and that even getting this new degree would not insure me getting work, as I was in my 40s by then and coming off of "early retirement" - so I just threw in the towel for good on working again as a programmer.