Is Kate Moss's View on Thinness Controversial? Share Your Opinion!

[DanP]

I tossed my first wedding pictures, I looked awful. My collar bones were sticking out and my dress just hung there. I weighed 92 pounds. I have no shape. No hips, no rear, no thighs.

Well, Evo, you did scored the millionaire high lord. It must have been something special about you...

 

[DanP]

I'd like to see a study that would support that point. I think skinny girls can have just as much self esteem issues as chubby girls. I know I was always picked on the fact that I was skinny, even on this board people make derogatory comments towards skinny people.

Id like to see a study as well.

My observations where purely empirical, based on what I say daily in the gyms and
during social encounters.

It may very well be statistical in nature. I mean, there are more adult women out there which have issues being overweight rather than a underweight. And the trend is increasing, more and more ppl eat and drink themselves fat. When normalized, it is quite possible the numbers of ppl with issue to be quite close.

While I believe there exist no excuse for a man to be frail and weak, I do find "skinny" girls and athletic types quite attractive. There is no chance in hell Ill go out with an overweight women. If that makes me shallow, that's it, I can live with it. I really do wonder if for every "me" really exists a man who is into "chubby" girls.

 

[Monique]

Perhaps it was bad, we actually called her the "razor boned gazelle", and never meant it in a bad way and she never took it in a bad way. I still call her that today and she knows I mean it lovingly, that's what she is. She actually liked the nickname. We were always concerned that she wasn't eating enough to be healthy, but we never tried to make her eat more. I always had served vegetables and she loved my vegetables, also lentils, she ate a healthy assortnment of foods, but never very much.

Regarding nicknames...when she was very young I called her "head on a stick" (since most kids have disproportionately large heads). After puberty, I called her "hips and boobs on a stick".

Did this affect her? Well at age 16, she told me she was very happy with how she looks. Now, how many 16-year-old girls feel so good about themselves? I think it's all about intent. Sure I would tease her a bit, but I also told her she is very beautiful. (But more often, I reminded her how smart she is .)

If you call your kid/ spouse a fat seal, but you really mean it in a loving way, that would not make sense right? Being compared to a stick is not a compliment, not in my book anyway. Growing up they'd call me 'stick along the waterside' or a guy used to say that 'he was going to put me on his pickup' (it took me a long time to realize he was comparing me to a needle). Constant negative feedback is not good. While some people may start eating more when they're down, my appetite would actually be reduced in such a situation.

Just recently we had a student in the lab and she would constantly be harassed by her (low) weight, with the most ridiculous comments. The people making the snide remarks pretend it is all in good fun, but you shouldn't dare to say anything about their fat distribution.

The Ally McBeal show made me realize that you can be thin and accepted/successful, so that had a big influence on how I could view myself. That would probably seem weird to a lot of people.

 

[DanP]

. The people making the snide remarks pretend it is all in good fun, but you shouldn't dare to say anything about their fat distribution.

Aesop's "The Fox and the Grapes". It seems to me that for many fat individuals a "skinny" women is a personal insult. Going like "If I can't be like her, at least I can pretend I don't care and bash her."

 

[Proton Soup]

Just recently we had a student in the lab and she would constantly be harassed by her (low) weight, with the most ridiculous comments. The people making the snide remarks pretend it is all in good fun, but you shouldn't dare to say anything about their fat distribution.

mostly women? that would be envy. many women can't stand to have a more desirable female in their midst. they'll do anything they can to bring her down a notch. if she's lean, they'll want her fat. if she has long hair, they'll want her to cut it. if she's respectable, they'll want her to have a bad reputation.

 

[Monique]

mostly women? that would be envy. many women can't stand to have a more desirable female in their midst. they'll do anything they can to bring her down a notch. if she's lean, they'll want her fat. if she has long hair, they'll want her to cut it. if she's respectable, they'll want her to have a bad reputation.

Also men, which a young student would look up to, will say in front of a crowd "you should eat more, you look like a walking stick" and laugh about it. It is a demeaning thing to say, no matter how much truth there may be in it. I was tempted to say "you should eat less, your stomach is hanging over your belt", but I'm not going to strike that low

 

[DanP]

"you should eat less, your stomach is hanging over your belt", but I'm not going to strike that low

Is not such a low blow ...Cmmon, do it for the fun of it

 

[turbo]

I identify. I was a distance-runner and competitive skier all through HS. My peak weight though HS was never much more than 120#, and I never hit 130# until I was in college. At 5'7", I was muscular, but pretty lean. I had a lot of friends in college that were wrestlers and football players, and the guys that wanted to recruit me were mostly the wrestlers. Lean muscle means a lot to them. I was far more interested in keeping the health of all of my fingers, hands, etc, because I could make quite a bit of money playing music on friday and saturday nights. That (along with dealing in instruments) was a major piece of cash-flow keeping me in school.

 

[Moonbear]

Also men, which a young student would look up to, will say in front of a crowd "you should eat more, you look like a walking stick" and laugh about it. It is a demeaning thing to say, no matter how much truth there may be in it. I was tempted to say "you should eat less, your stomach is hanging over your belt", but I'm not going to strike that low

It seems that no matter what your weight is, someone will criticize it. It's interesting that people feel so free to criticize weight when they wouldn't be so rude about other aspects of a person's appearance.

I was remarking to my boyfriend recently that I needed to buy new clothes again because I keep gaining weight in my new job (a combination of passing 35 and not spending my days at the farm, but still being on my feet a lot so I'm too tired to even think about things like working out when I get home, plus having the rest of my time to sit at a desk and eat snacks has not been good for my weight). He commented that he's not complaining, because he's been trying to get me to gain weight since we first met, when he thought I was too skeletal. (Obviously not enough to deter him from dating me...but I was a little 114 lb waif of a grad student then.) I liked it when I was that weight, though, because any clothes I bought looked good on me...they were all designed for that size. He complained that my hip bones stuck out too much and hurt him.

Since I've been teaching anatomy, that's actually not the only time I've heard that from men! As we teach them all the parts of the hip bones, I've heard others comment, "Oh, that's the part that hurts when..." and then they just cut their sentence short realizing what they were about to say to their professor. So, apparently men have some big preference for padding in that area.

But, I don't think it matters what size you are...someone will think they can be rude and criticize it.

Though, we have one of our office staff who I'm JEALOUS of! She had a baby last year. She is tall, and thin, and when she was only a week away from having the baby, she still looked teeny tiny, like she was just starting to show (in fact, that was when I first even noticed she was pregnant, when she was preparing for maternity leave!) Now that she has the baby, she's even thinner than before she got pregnant. She does look like a model, and she doesn't have to work at it at all (breast feeding probably helps, but based on her figure before hand, I don't think that's all it is). She eats plenty, but just has the sort of genetics that keep her thin.

Anyway, she looks perfect, but I'm sure she has someone who tells her "Eat! Eat! You're all skin and bones!" But then if you gain weight, they tell you you need to be on a diet.

I think the bottom line is to just be happy with yourself and learn to ignore rude people.

 

[lisab]

Also men, which a young student would look up to, will say in front of a crowd "you should eat more, you look like a walking stick" and laugh about it. It is a demeaning thing to say, no matter how much truth there may be in it. I was tempted to say "you should eat less, your stomach is hanging over your belt", but I'm not going to strike that low

An important point about comments to my daughter, about how skinny she is: intent. Cuddling and kissing a child, while saying she looks like a cute little head on a stick, has no ill intent, IMO. Yet any comment about how someone looks, followed by laughter, is very cruel. I could never do that to anyone, least of all my own daughter.

But comments about my daughter's looks were few and far between. The vast majority of comments she heard while growing up were about on how smart she is, and how kind-hearted she is...positive reinforcement .

 

[DanP]

She eats plenty, but just has the sort of genetics that keep her thin.

Interesting enough , if one has a resting metabolic rate only with 50kcal higher than another person, and if you assume that in a kilogram of bodyfat there are about 7700 kcal , in the course of a year you have: 50x365 = 18250 supplementary more kcal / year used. It amounts to 2.37 Kg of bodyfat.

While it doesn't seem a big number, it is a lot.

It this also brings me to another issue. How finely tuned must be regulation of appetite in a human to maintain weight. Just several kcal / day make a big impact on the course of a year. Say an excess of just 3g of fats (9kcal / g ) / day is 27kcal , over the course of a year 9855 kcal.

I find it extremely hard to imagine anyone can regulate appetite to account for 3g of fat in a meal. Perhaps regulation of body mass include "delayed" mechanisms which work over larger time spans, and which compensate for such minute quantities being ingested. Perhaps by modulating RMR. But then again, what constitutes the reference to which the whole system is reported ?

Its fascinating. More than that, human body is elegant.

 

[Proton Soup]

Is not such a low blow ...Cmmon, do it for the fun of it

yeah, it's not much going to bug most guys, tho

 

[DaveC426913]

I find it extremely hard to imagine anyone can regulate appetite to account for 3g of fat in a meal.

We can't. Which is why, as a people, we're gaining weight.


It worked quite well when our food source was limited and our means to get it was labour-intensive. Simpy eat as much as you can. If you ate enough, you lived. If you didn't get enough, you might be weaker, expend less enrgy, sleep longer etc. or in extreme cases, died.

 

[leroyjenkens]

So, there can be a genetic component that comes from any of a large variety of hormones and signalling molecules. Alternatively, just as diabetes has an acquired form, so may obesity. So, just as you can permanently screw up your insulin receptors by being obese for a long time or since an early age, it is possible you can screw up your leptin receptors (leptin insensitivity) or any other of these receptors, if you start out overweight from an early age, and may get to the point where it does not matter how much you want to lose weight, you've already broken that regulatory system. This is of rising concern with the increase in childhood obesity. Children really don't know better, so if their parents allow them to be obese and don't help them regulate their diet when young, they really may be set up for life-long problems that will not be reversible once older.

I think that's what happens; parents make their kids overweight, therefore dooming them to be overweight for life.
If you see an entire family who is overweight, I doubt they all eat carrots all day and can't seem to lose weight.
Just because you have the feeling you need to eat more, why does it have to be cake? I eat a lot, but I'm careful what I eat, therefore I'm not fat.

Not all persons who are overweight present genetic defects in the regulation mechanisms. A lot of persons who get fat can thank this to a lifestyle where the need to do physical work (and hence oxidize nutrients ) is very low, and food is discretionary available.

However , it should be noted that staying long times overweight can induce acquired defects in metabolic regulation. Some of those can be reversible, some irreversible and you have to deal with them for the rest of your life.

My original point was directed at people who claim they CAN'T lose weight or they CAN'T gain weight. That just means they're not doing it right.

It isn't.

It also isn't a valid comparison to my quotes of your words and is thus irrelevant.

"I don't think there's such thing as naturally or unnaturally skinny or chubby."

This statement alone is a contradiction. How can something be neither natural nor unnatural?

You know what I meant. I think you're just nitpicking.

We're all the 'ectomorph' type

People talk about the body types like they're set in stone. You're ectomorph, but when you gain weight, you're another type of morph. Well, what's the point of giving it a technical name if it can change? Just say you're all skinny.

and have always wanted to gain weight. I tried the pizza, BLT burger, french fries diet; the chocolate ice cream diet; the protein-shakes diet.

I have a friend who says the same thing, but he eats so little of it, it's no wonder he can't gain weight. He has a small stomach, so it doesn't stretch very far. His idea of eating a lot is the same as me just getting started. He may eat his idea of a bunch of pizza, which is 3 slices, when I eat an entire large pizza by myself.

I never dared to join the gym, because you only work out when you want to loose weight.

Depends on the exercise. If you do cardio, you'll probably lose weight, but if you lift weights, you'll not only gain weight in muscle, you'll start eating more often.

Anyway, I've always found it very annoying that people think they can dictate how you should look.

You should look how you want to look. It's nobody elses business how you look. They should be worrying about themselves.

It is an image that is created in society: you go to aerobics to loose weight and the gym to become a buff muscle-beast and loose weight (fat). When I figured out that resistance training might be a good option I contacted a gym and asked what training program would be good, but hit a closed door.

I did join a gym for some time and combined the exercise with protein shakes. Now I joined a program that has a more personal approach and strengthens muscles in the extended position. It is called Essentrics and I'm very happy with it. I probably should join my boyfriend to the gym tomorrow, I wouldn't mind a body like Shakira

Do squats. Squats give women really nice butts and thighs. Most people see that as a man's exercise, but it's not.

You wouldn't say to a chubby person that hugging them feels like hugging fatty-blubber?

Of course not, who wants to hug a fat person in the first place?

Just kidding.

 

[DanP]

Simpy eat as much as you can. If you ate enough, you lived. If you didn't get enough, you might be weaker, expend less enrgy, sleep longer etc. or in extreme cases, died.

Indeed. It worked back then, but this kills "us" in western society today. Activity levels due to work dropped significantly in the last 150 years. I seen studies estimating that average man and women back then expended 3500 Kcal / day. Food was scarcer than today.

Where are we today in western society ? An overabundance of food and abysmal activity levels, for both adults and kids. Some don't even allow their children to play rougher games because they are afraid they'll get "hurt". Some will keep them "safe in house" during winter and bad weather because poor child will get "ill" if exposed to elements. And to top this, they'll say "eat everything from your plate, else you won't grow", forcing the kid to overfeed. We get fatter, the average V02 Max for populations drops continuously, strength levels in most adults are very low... Metabolic regulation spins out of control even from childhood.

Giving this bleak image, Id say KM is right, her motto should be adopted by a lot of persons.
And in this thread I believe Lisa put it in best words so far.

 

[turbo]

Giving this bleak image, Id say KM is right, her motto should be adopted by a lot of persons.

You know that Moss has a cocaine habit, right? Between cigarettes, coffee, booze, and coke, she's not the right person to be giving out life-style or health advice.

Have you heard the term "heroin chic" applied to severely underweight fashion models? There's a reason for that.

 

[DanP]

My original point was directed at people who claim they CAN'T lose weight or they CAN'T gain weight. That just means they're not doing it right.

.

Of course everybody can lose or gain weight. But this doesn't mean everybody is born with the same "body". Because it is not so. We are not created equal. Expression (or lack thereof) of certain genes or a slightly different regulation can drastically change the landscape.

A slightly higher RMR, higher concentration of certain hormones, higher concentration of several key enzymes and you can end with quite different body compositions.

That does not mean that one of those persons had a inborn defect in gene regulation.
They are both in normal range of function. Yet one needs less effort to maintain a certain body composition than the other one. Or for that matter, to achieve certain results in sport competition. Our physiology is the same. Yet there we are not the same.

 

[DanP]

You know that Moss has a cocaine habit, right? Between cigarettes, coffee, booze, and coke, she's not the right person to be giving out life-style or health advice.

Have you heard the term "heroin chic" applied to severely underweight fashion models? There's a reason for that.

I know, but I don't really care. It is not for me to judge her.

 

[xxChrisxx]

Turbo it wasn't meant to be health advice though was it. It wasn't an interview for a healthy eating magazine, it was an interview for a fashion column.

 

[DaveC426913]

I know, but I don't really care. It is not for me to judge her.

But it is crucial to answering the OP question.

 

[xxChrisxx]

But it is crucial to answering the OP question.

Why?

She wasn't being asked to give advice on health. she was asked if she had any mottos that she lived by. Her other habits are irrelevent.

The OP just asked for comments on this.

 

[DanP]

Have you heard the term "heroin chic" applied to severely underweight fashion models? There's a reason for that.

Besides, if you use the commonly accepted dimensions of Kate Moss and you do the calculations, you see that her BMI is ~16.8 - 16.9. This category is at the lowish end of underweight , not severely underweight, which, if i recall correctly, starts at 16.5.

Btw, judging from the data you posted on board, it seems that before college you only had 7kg on KM. Only with 0.3 above start of underweight category which starts at 18.5.

Now should we start inventing names for the opposite category above normal BMI, the overweight ? How about we start calling the category 25 - 30 BMI "lard chic" ?

It would be mighty cool, don't you think so ?

 

[DaveC426913]

Why?

She wasn't being asked to give advice on health. she was asked if she had any mottos that she lived by. Her other habits are irrelevent.

The OP just asked for comments on this.

Her drug habit is inextricably linked to her weight.
Her weight is inextricably linked to her career and celebrity.
Her career and celebrity are inextricably tied to her status as a role model.

And like it or not, she is a role model.

So, what she is saying is tantmount to "getting superthin is an excellent path to supermodeldom and fame".
And how does Kate get superthin? With a drug addiction (and maybe eating less).

 

[DaveC426913]

Now should we start inventing names for the opposite category above normal BMI, the overweight ? How about we start calling the category 25 - 30 BMI "lard chic" ?

We do.

Overweight.
Obese.
Morbidly obese.

 

[xxChrisxx]

So, what she is saying is tantmount to "getting superthin is an excellent path to supermodeldom and fame".
And how does Kate get superthin? With a drug addiction (and maybe eating less).

Only really truly stupid people and those who are doing it on puropse, who are unable to read into comment to find out what they acutally mean think she was saying.
"Anorexia... it's marvellous"It was a comment on self control over what you eat.
"Should I eat the meat pie... or the salad?"
Meat pies taste better, but make you fat.

Fact is we should have self control over what we eat. The fact that she doesn't practise what she preaches with regards to cocaine, alcohol etc, makes precisely no odds what so ever.

Also read the next thing she said. "you try to remember but it doesn't always work"
It was a stupid thing for her to say, as it was obvious the media were going to go ape**** about it.

 

[DanP]

We do.

Overweight.
Obese.
Morbidly obese.

We don't. 25 -29.9 is referred with the politically correct term "overweight". How about calling those models politically correct as well, "underweight" not "heroin chic" ? Do we also go to our female coworkers or acquaintances over 25 - 29.9 category and call them "lard chic" ?

 

[DaveC426913]

We don't. 25 -29.9 is referred with the politically correct term "overweight". How about calling those models politically correct as well, "underweight" not "heroin chic" ? Do we also go to our female coworkers or acquaintances over 25 - 29.9 category and call them "lard chic" ?

You do realize that there's a big distinction here between the correct clinical terms and the popular slurs...

Severely underweight
Underweight
Ideal
Overweight
Obese
Morbidly obese

as opposed to

Heroin chic
Normal
Fat
Lard-butt

So I'm not sure what your problem is.

 

[DanP]

Her drug habit is inextricably linked to her weight.

I have a friend who is also in the "underweight" category. I can ensure you she is not doing drugs. Also a male friend. Underweight also. He is not doing drugs.

You just can't generalize anything in this.

 

[DaveC426913]

Only really truly stupid people and those who are doing it on puropse, who are unable to read into comment to find out what they acutally mean think she was saying.
"Anorexia... it's marvellous"

It is fact that young, impressionable girls are taking after these underweight supermodels. And indeed some are anorexic.

Call them stupid if you want; that changes nothing.

 

[DaveC426913]

I have a friend who is also in the "underweight" category. I can ensure you she is not doing drugs. Also a male friend. Underweight also. He is not doing drugs.

You just can't generalize anything in this.

I didn't.

Note the pronoun: her.

How can you possibly misread that?