Is Kate Moss's View on Thinness Controversial? Share Your Opinion!

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Kate Moss's quote, "Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels," sparked significant controversy, with many questioning the implications of promoting extreme thinness. Some participants argue that maintaining a low body fat percentage can be healthy and desirable, while others emphasize the importance of accepting diverse body types and focusing on overall health rather than size. The discussion highlights the struggle between societal beauty standards and individual self-acceptance, with opinions varying on whether the sacrifices required for a supermodel physique are worthwhile. Additionally, the influence of celebrity messages on public perception, especially among young women, is a critical concern. Ultimately, the conversation underscores the complexity of body image and health in contemporary society.
  • #91
You said her weight is directly affected by her using drugs. You have precisely no way of backing that statement up, its your opinion not fact.

Her drug habit is inextricably linked to her weight.

Prove it.

It's infact far more likey that she's skinny because she doen't eat enough to put on weight. A sniff of the party powder doesn't make you not eat (in majority of cases, there are those who get hyper and chose not to/forget to eat). It also doesn't make you magically lose weight either.

For you to make that statemnt, you are assuming she is an addict. A user != addict, even a habitual user. You've got to remember the company she was keeping at the time of the cocaine Kate stuff. You are also assuming she is one of the people that cocaine stops appetite. Anyway nicotine is a better hunger supressant than cocaine is. You are also assuming she is still a user.

Note, she's still skinny.
 
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  • #92
DaveC426913 said:
You do realize that there's a big distinction here between the correct clinical terms and the popular slurs...

Severely underweight
Underweight
Ideal
Overweight
Obese
Morbidly obese

as opposed to

Heroin chic
Normal
Fat
Lard-butt

So I'm not sure what your problem is.

No problem at all, but when I said we should call 25 - 29.9 BMI "lard chic", you responded that we do ... and started to enumerate the correct clinical terms. Interesting choice, I was expecting a derogatory slang as well.
 
  • #93
lisab said:
But comments about my daughter's looks were few and far between. The vast majority of comments she heard while growing up were about on how smart she is, and how kind-hearted she is...positive reinforcement :smile:.
That's good :biggrin:

leroyjenkens said:
My original point was directed at people who claim they CAN'T lose weight or they CAN'T gain weight. That just means they're not doing it right.
Of course, everything is possible. If you eat more or less that should make a difference, but the amount of effort is not proportional to what is achieved. The only time I noticed I gained some weight is when I was eating 3 warm meals a day: Indian curry in the morning, BLT burger/pizza/fries during lunch and a regular warm meal during diner. Of course the weight didn't stay on for very long. I guess I'll set up an appointment with a nutritionist some day, I've always wondered what an expert would have to say :smile:

People talk about the body types like they're set in stone. You're ectomorph, but when you gain weight, you're another type of morph. Well, what's the point of giving it a technical name if it can change? Just say you're all skinny.
I can't help but think that people are not created equally, a clear example is how fat is stored: the locations can be very different from person to person. Funny thing is that I have a younger sister that I grew up with and she does have "meat on the bones", there was a big difference between her and my build even at a young age. Did my parents feed her more? My knowledge on anatomy is not extensive, so I don't know how much variety there is in basic anatomy from person to person. What determines the main variety in the size of a wrist, is it the bone, the muscles or the fat underneath the skin?

Do squats. Squats give women really nice butts and thighs. Most people see that as a man's exercise, but it's not.
Actually I have a home-trainer to train those muscles. Of course my older sister and I over the years managed to gain a few pounds, J-lo is my role model in that regard :smile:
 
  • #94
xxChrisxx said:
You said her weight is directly affected by her using drugs. You have precisely no way of backing that statement up, its your opinion not fact.



Prove it.

It's infact far more likey that she's skinny because she doen't eat enough to put on weight. A sniff of the party powder doesn't make you not eat (in majority of cases, there are those who get hyper and chose not to eat). It also doesn't make you magically lose weight either.

I'll leave it to the experts to hash out how much of her weight is actually attributable to her past drug addictions.

But we are talking about her role model status. It doesn't really matter how true it is, she is still sending the message to impressionable wannabes.
 
  • #95
Dave don't just dismiss it. You made a statement that her low weight is almost solely down to drug use (as that was the only factor you explicity outlined) and you just can't back that up. She is still skinny, but no longer uses... so you have a problem with you statement right there.

Yes she is a role model, and it was stupid for her to say it. Becuase it was obvious that people were going to read into it, that is was pro anorexic. However reading EXACTLY what she said, It's a comment about self control and not anorexia.

So say what you will. The SENTIMENT behind the statement was correct.I can't tell if you were on of the people who read it as pro anorexic, or are just taking a contrary view to play devils advocate.
 
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  • #96
Monique said:
Actually I have a home-trainer to train those muscles. Of course my older sister and I over the years managed to gain a few pounds, J-lo is my role model in that regard :smile:

Actually, he is right here, there are not many things in this world which help shape a women's *** like *deep back squats* do. No home training toy will ever come close. On the other hand is a pretty technical exercise and the cause of a lot of injuries in strength training, so any adult should be properly instructed before attempting to squat. Children still have the ability to squat deep naturally and beautifully, but most western adults seems they lost this capacity. Thanks to a sedentary life :P
 
  • #97
xxChrisxx said:
Yes she is a role model, and it was stupid for her to say it. Becuase it was obvious that people were going to read into it, that is was pro anorexic.

However reading EXACTLY what she said, It's a comment about self control and not anorexia.

The important part is, unfortunately, not reading exactly what she said, but the idea that was put across by the snippet of her interview: after all, this is what the youngsters who idolise her are going to do. Of course, it's also the fault of the media for representing her comments in this slightly biased way, but ultimately, it is totally irresponsible for her to be using a pro-anorexia motto in any interview.
 
  • #98
xxChrisxx said:
You made a statement that her low weight is almost solely down to drug use (as that was the only factor you explicity outlined)
I did not say that at all. I said they are inextricably linked.

xxChrisxx said:
and you just can't back that up. She is still skinny, but no longer uses... so you have a problem with you statement right there.

It doesn't matter if it's fact. The idea of rolemodeldom is that one you idolize is giving you advice on things you don't know yourself. That's why you model yourself after them. Since it is impossible to go out and seek first-hand data on everything you want, you trust those you respect.
 
  • #99
cristo said:
. Of course, it's also the fault of the media for representing her comments in this slightly biased way, but ultimately, it is totally irresponsible for her to be using a pro-anorexia motto in any interview.

I would say "using a motto which can be interpreted as pro-anorexia", for I agree with Chris's interpretation.
 
  • #100
DaveC426913 said:
It doesn't matter if it's fact. It is the message she is sending.

What is the message ? That ppl should eat less ? Look around on the streets, armies of fat slobs, both man and women, should stop eating the mountains of food they ingest.
 
  • #101
DaveC426913 said:
It doesn't matter if it's fact. It is the message she is sending.

She's NOT sending that message though. What she said, and what the headlines then say she said are two different things.

WWD: Do you have a motto?
KM: There are loads. There’s “Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels.” That’s one of them. You try and remember, but it never works.

is NOT the same as

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/kate-moss-blasted-for-saying-being-skinny-is-better-than-eating/31526

Kate Moss Blasted for Saying Being Skinny Is Better Than Eating

or

http://www.care2.com/causes/womens-rights/blog/kate-moss-says-skinny-is-better-than-healthy/
Kate Moss Says Skinny Is Better Than Healthy

or

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1229305/Kate-Moss-criticised-skinny-best-motto.html
Kate Moss was criticised yesterday for failing to issue a proper apology after boasting that it was better to be skinny than to eat.

Dave you love pointing out logical fallacies and crap like that. This is a really effective use of a quotemine.
The first part of the stamtent can be read as pro enorexic, the very next thing she says puts it into a context that doesn't mean what the papers are saying.

It's the same sentiment as my motto

"don't eat pies Chris, you'll become a fatty"
 
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  • #102
Has it ever been studied whether people become anorexic because of a role model that is thin? As far as I know (I recently watched a documentary that followed anorexic women), it is more about having control than losing weight. I strongly received the impression that it is very comparable to an obsessive compulsive disorder. Of course the process of going on a diet can trigger anorexia, but it is not a direct cause.
 
  • #103
Monique said:
Has it ever been studied whether people become anorexic because of a role model that is thin? As far as I know (I recently watched a documentary that followed anorexic women), it is more about having control than losing weight. I strongly received the impression that it is very comparable to an obsessive compulsive disorder. Of course the process of going on a diet can trigger anorexia, but it is not a direct cause.

I remember seeing sometihng like this on channel 4. (In the UK). It was quite a while ago though.
 
  • #104
Kate Moss was criticised yesterday for failing to issue a proper apology after boasting that it was better to be skinny than to eat.

This is a particularly funny one. I guess I should also go and apologize to all the fat ones who I managed to motivate to take a better approach to nutrition and fitness.

" 'Hey man , sorry I motivated you to lose the mountains of fat you had. Sorry I told you to refrain of eating the mountains of CHO and fats you do. You know what, you where better fat, depressed and risking diabetes"
 
  • #105
DanP said:
What is the message ? That ppl should eat less ? Look around on the streets, armies of fat slobs, both man and women, should stop eating the mountains of food they ingest.

Have you been out to lunch for the last dozen posts?

Whose ear do you think she has? Do you think all those regular people you're seeing on the street - including overweight girls and boys and adults - are listening to Kate Moss on how to be a supermodel? No. Normal young girls who do not need to lose weight are starving themselves sick to model themselves after her and other unhealthily skinny stereotypes.
 
  • #106
DaveC426913 said:
Have you been out to lunch for the last dozen posts?

Whose ear do you think she has? Do you think all those regular people you're seeing on the street - including overweight girls and boys and adults - are listening to Kate Moss on how to be a supermodel? No. Normal young girls who do not need to lose weight are starving themselves sick to model themselves after her and other unhealthily skinny stereotypes.

Come again ?

What is the message, I asked. Not what is the interpretation by different categories.
 
  • #107
DanP said:
This is a particularly funny one. I guess I should also go and apologize to all the fat ones who I managed to motivate to take a better approach to nutrition and fitness.

Like I said: who's ear do you think Kate Moss has? Do you think it's all the overweight adults that are hearing her message?
 
  • #108
DanP said:
I would say "using a motto which can be interpreted as pro-anorexia", for I agree with Chris's interpretation.

Regardless of the way one interprets the motto, it is a fact that this motto is used by pro-anorexica media out there, thus it is irresponsible for her (a role model to young girls who, let's face it, must have seen the effects of anorexia through her job) to be using such a phrase in an interview.
 
  • #109
DanP said:
Come again ?

What is the message, I asked.
You then went to propose an answer that implicitly contained the message:

Look around on the streets, armies of fat slobs, both man and women, should stop eating the mountains of food they ingest.
to wit: "Hey all you fat slobs: stop eating the mountains of food you ingest."



So to be clear: Kate Moss does not have the ear of fat adult, male slobs. She has the ear of young women who see themselves either like her or who want to be like her.
 
  • #110
DaveC426913 said:
Like I said: who's ear do you think Kate Moss has? Do you think overweight adults are hearing her message?

Maybe they should. What about if the press , instead of redirect with the purpose of bashing KM, would redirect what she said to be used as a campaign over the increasing obesity in western world ? To make the fat man and women who walks the streets actually gain some self respect and loose the excess , and in process gain a life ?
 
  • #111
DaveC426913 said:
Have you been out to lunch for the last dozen posts?

Whose ear do you think she has? Do you think all those regular people you're seeing on the street - including overweight girls and boys and adults - are listening to Kate Moss on how to be a supermodel? No. Normal young girls who do not need to lose weight are starving themselves sick to model themselves after her and other unhealthily skinny stereotypes.

You keep setting them up and i'll keep knocking them down, because these arguments are frankly dreadful.

Kate Moss is skinny, she is a model. She is NOT anorexic, she does NOT endorse anorexia. She is not responsible for other poeples actions. Her weight and size are natural for her.

Tell me something. how is the above statement any different then:
"Violent video games cause children to murder people"
"Beatles should be blamed for Manson murders"You cannot blame someone for other peoples actions. This is NOT her fault. It's that fault of our entire sociecty. Especially in America where the media and people are obsessed with celebity and looks. Frankly... we should ban airbrushing and the shopping of photos in magazines, that would do more to convince pople that these celebrites aren't perfect.

For example my missus reads Heat magazine. A magazine that bashes people for becoming skinny, then bashes poeple for putting on weight. It's this kind of thing that breeds a society where no one is comfortable with their bodies.
 
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  • #112
DaveC426913 said:
to wit: "Hey all you fat slobs: stop eating the mountains of food you ingest."

Sorry, I know that not being a native English speaker does not constitutes an excuse, I will try to do better next time when I build propositions. Thanks for catching it.
 
  • #113
DanP said:
This is a particularly funny one. I guess I should also go and apologize to all the fat ones who I managed to motivate to take a better approach to nutrition and fitness.

" 'Hey man , sorry I motivated you to lose the mountains of fat you had. Sorry I told you to refrain of eating the mountains of CHO and fats you do. You know what, you where better fat, depressed and risking diabetes"

The fundamental difference being that you were talking to (presumably) adults who were unhealthy, and lost the weight to become healthy. The motto mentioned by Kate Moss is not going to be listened to by the unhealthy overweight people, but will be listened to by either normal, healthy girls, or unhealthily underweight girls to make them lose more weight.

How can you draw such analogies? Have you never seen the effects of negative role models on young people growing up?
 
  • #114
cristo said:
How can you draw such analogies? Have you never seen the effects of negative role models on young people growing up?

You see, this is a shift of responsibility. It is the role of parents and educators to model the young ppl growing up in such a way that they take on "positive role models". Not KM's role to shut up. Perhaps the role of the society in general to model the media in such a way that the glamor life on Hollywood actresses and supermodels is not glorified, but equilibrating presented. The role of the society to tell the fashion industry to stop firing models who got to size 5. To stop buying the clothes from designers , if they want to make a statement.

But they dont. They consume the media, consume the designer cloths, support the industry in as many way as possible. Then they blame it on KM :P She is not responsible for the psychosis caused by today's social system, media, and business world.
 
  • #115
xxChrisxx said:
She is not responsible for other poeples actions.
She is a celebrity and a role model. It's a package deal.

xxChrisxx said:
Her weight and size are natural for her.
Do you know this for a fact?

xxChrisxx said:
Tell me something. how is the above statement any different then:
"Violent video games cause children to murder people"
"Beatles should be blamed for Manson murders"
Better question: how are they the same?

xxChrisxx said:
You cannot blame someone for other peoples actions. This is NOT her fault.
Again: package deal.

xxChrisxx said:
It's that fault of our entire sociecty. Especially in America where the media and people are obsessed with celebity and looks. Frankly... we should ban airbrushing and the shopping of photos in magazines, that would do more to convince pople that these celebrites aren't perfect. For example my missus reads Heat magazine. A magazine that bashes people for becoming skinny, then bashes poeple for putting on weight. It's this kind of thing that breeds a society where no one is comfortable with their bodies.
Agreed on all points.
 
  • #116
DaveC426913 said:
Do you know this for a fact?

She appears to have no health problems, her BMI is underweight, but not dangerously so. Se wears a size 4 US, which is a UK size 6. So we are not talking about someone who is stupidly skinny here, no one would consider a size 6 in the UK to be stupidly small.

DaveC426913 said:
Better question: how are they the same?

You are attributing the causes of triggering anorexia to one group of people. Basically saying... they are thin.. they are succesful... they are the problem. Not taking into account other factors that are more likely to have a causal link.

Yes people wish to emulate a celebrity's style and figure. Most do this by going to the gym and attempting to lose weight healthily. Anorexia is a mental illness akin to OCD, you cannot point the finger at some random skinny model and shout they are the cause of it.

Just like, many children play violent video games, almost none become physchoic murderers. You have to be predisposed to being not right in the head to want go out and murder someone.To sum up, you have the cause and effect backwards.

Video games don't tent to make people violent. People with violent tendancies tend to play violent video games.
Girls aren't anorexic to look like Kate Moss, they are anorexic anyway but hold Kate Moss as a shining beacon. When in many cases she weighs more than they do.

eg

anorexic.jpg

http://punchitin.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/kate-moss.jpg
 
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  • #117
DaveC426913 said:
It's that fault of our entire sociecty. Especially in America where the media and people are obsessed with celebity and looks. Frankly... we should ban airbrushing and the shopping of photos in magazines, that would do more to convince pople that these celebrites aren't perfect. For example my missus reads heat magazine. A magazine that bashes people for becoming skinny, then bashes poeple for putting on weight. It's this kind of thing that breeds a society where no one is comfortable with their bodies.

Agreed on all points.

The issue is even a bit more deep. Everything revolves around money and economy. Fashion, movie industry , music industry ,sports , even research grants :P

We all love to look at a certain sport. To buy tickets to baseball, football, hockey, MMA promotions. You name it. Promoters and team owners want to give ppl the circus, for they pay good money for it. They get in their teams or promotions the best sportsman, the ppl who deliver.

Yet what's happening behind the curtain is pretty though. To stay on top as a professional sportsman you have to give up a lot of things. There are thousands of professional hokey players , football players, you name it, with permanent damage to musculoskeletal system.

Boxers with neurological issues. Overuse injuries from the years of training you get through to first become competitive, then remain competitive at elite levels. Weightlifters who had to go through back operations. Lot of other athletes with knee reconstruction surgery. Wrestlers competing in much lower weight classes than their natural weight. Bodybuilders who abuse steroids to remain at the top where money are.

The situation is no better in amateur sport.

The want to be candidates catch very fast the idea that to be on top of your field, you have to pay your dues. To be "bigger,faster, stronger" so you are one of the ppl who are chosen to give the crowds the circus, you have to do a lot of unhealthy things.

You don't need KM to tell you what it takes to succeed. Its common knowledge already. The industry fires size 5 models. I heard even of a size 4 fired. Heidi Klum stated that she was considered too big for catwalk. You want at the top, you have to pay the dues.
 
  • #118
I do find her quite attractive physically.

xxChrisxx said:
http://punchitin.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/kate-moss.jpg
[/URL]
 
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  • #119
xxChrisxx said:
She appears to have no health problems, her BMI is underweight, but not dangerously so. Se wears a size 4 US, which is a UK size 6. So we are not talking about someone who is stupidly skinny here, no one would consider a size 6 in the UK to be stupidly small.
So, your opinion then. OK.


xxChrisxx said:
You are attributing the causes of triggering anorexia to one group of people. Basically saying... they are thin.. they are succesful... they are the problem. Not taking into account other factors that are more likely to have a causal link.

Yes people wish to emulate a celebrity's style and figure. Most do this by going to the gym and attempting to lose weight healthily. Anorexia is a mental illness akin to OCD, you cannot point the finger at some random skinny model and shout they are the cause of it.
You are putting words in my mouth. And you are creating a straw man.

You are welcome to have all the above opinions if you wish and make any claims you wish, but they are your opinions and claims, not mine. Address my words, not your mangling of your interpretation of my words.



xxChrisxx said:
Just like, many children play violent video games, almost none become physchoic murderers. You have to be predisposed to being not right in the head to want go out and murder someone.


To sum up, you have the cause and effect backwards.

Video games don't tent to make people violent. People with violent tendancies tend to play violent video games.
This is a straw man. Straw men tend to be invoked when one's argument against the subject at hand is weak and one wishes to move the argument to a more advantageous battlefield. I don't think that's what you intended to portray. Stick to the subject at-hand.

xxChrisxx said:
Girls aren't anorexic to look like Kate Moss, they are anorexic anyway but hold Kate Moss as a shining beacon. When in many cases she weighs more than they do.
BTW, I did not raise the anorexia issue. Anorexia is a mental illness.

Independent of that, young girls are trying to model themselves after their idols (a shining beacon as you agree) and risking their health.
 
  • #120
DanP said:
I do find her quite attractive physically.

Meh. As I always like to say:

"Monsiuer, zee bones are for zee dog. Ze meat eez for zee man!"