Is My Energy Exchange Analysis Accurate for Evaluating My Motor?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around evaluating the energy exchange in a motor, specifically focusing on measuring input and output Joules, including heat output and rotational kinetic energy (RKE). Participants explore various methods for accurate measurement and analysis, addressing potential errors in the initial approach.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates input Joules using voltage and amperage, assuming constant wattage over time.
  • Another participant challenges the method for calculating heat output, stating that a motor dissipates energy through both work and thermal means, rather than purely as heat.
  • It is suggested that most motors operate efficiently, with only 10-20% of energy dissipated as heat, and that mechanical work output should be subtracted from input to find heat output.
  • A participant mentions that the current in the motor is decoupled from the shaft load, indicating a different energy exchange mechanism compared to conventional DC motors.
  • There is a proposal to measure work done by the rotor using a wind down method, where the rotor is spun up and RPM is plotted over time as it slows down.
  • One participant expresses a preference for direct measurement methods and seeks to calculate work done by the rotor at various speeds, sharing specific measurements of voltage, current, and RPM.
  • Another participant notes that slight adjustments to the system have yielded significantly higher RPM while maintaining the same voltage and current conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best method for calculating heat output and energy exchange in the motor. Multiple competing views on measurement techniques and the nature of energy dissipation remain present.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the accuracy of their calculations and the appropriateness of the formulas used, particularly in the context of unconventional motor designs. There are unresolved aspects related to the measurement of work and the influence of system adjustments on performance metrics.

nickec
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I have a motor I wish to evaluate.

I wish to measure the Joules input and output.

I believe I am making several errors.

Right now I measure the voltage and amperage, calculate watts, and assume that for every second this wattage stays the same. So V*A*seconds = Joules input

To calculate heat output in Joules I use current squared times resistance.

Another energy output is RKE, rotational kinetic energy. I measure RPM, convert to radians per second, determine moment of inertia of the rotating mass, and then use:

RKE = 1/2 * MOI * rps^2

Again, units are Joules.

This is a start. But are there errors above?
 
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"To calculate heat output in Joules I use current squared times resistance."

I wouldn't do that. The formula you are using is for a resistor which loses energy by purely thermal means. A motor dissipates energy by doing work and through thermal means. So as long as the motor is spinning, there is some energy being put out as work, and the rest is heat. It won't all go to heat.
 
...most motors operate pretty efficiently, so you shouldn't expect more than 10-20% to be dissipated as heat. The rest is dissipated as mechanical work. To find the heat output, I'd just subtract the mechanical work output from the input.
 
Prologue said:
"To calculate heat output in Joules I use current squared times resistance."

I wouldn't do that. The formula you are using is for a resistor which loses energy by purely thermal means. A motor dissipates energy by doing work and through thermal means. So as long as the motor is spinning, there is some energy being put out as work, and the rest is heat. It won't all go to heat.

In this motor the current is decoupled from the shaft load. It appears that the energy exchange is different from conventional DC motors.

I would like to measure the work done by the rotor. I believe there is a method involving wind downs. You spin up the rotor using an air line and then plot the rpm per unit of time as the rotor slows.

This is one test I need to learn about.
 
russ_watters said:
...most motors operate pretty efficiently, so you shouldn't expect more than 10-20% to be dissipated as heat. The rest is dissipated as mechanical work. To find the heat output, I'd just subtract the mechanical work output from the input.

If I do that, Russ, I have not measured directly, which is my preference. What you propose is an option. However. Since the motor is unconventional I would like to measure several ways if possible.

Are you familiar with determining work from wind down data, Russ?

I believe my Moment of Inertia calculation is correct and have calculated RKE. What is needed, I think, is to calculate the work done by the rotor at various speeds.

In one embodiment I have measured voltage to be 1.27 and average current to be 195 mA. With this input I realize a maximum rpm of 784. The motor windings see a square wave. Duty cycle is adjustable and numbers above are from one set up. Rotating mass is 171 grams.
 
Slight adjustments to system yields over 2600 rpm. Still 1.27 volts. Resistance under 0.5 ohms. Duty cycle roughly 50%. Current source is AA battery. Rotating mass still 171 grams.
 

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