- #31
The Smoking Man
- 67
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Lighten up for half a second.loseyourname said:
Have you ever tried not to sound condescending?
Is Nationalism Replacing Religion in Modern Society?
Click For Summary
Discussion Overview
The discussion centers on the relationship between nationalism and religion in modern society, exploring whether nationalism is replacing religious devotion. Participants examine historical contexts, the nature of human conflict, and the implications of societal beliefs on violence and morality.
Discussion Character
- Debate/contested
- Conceptual clarification
- Exploratory
Main Points Raised
- Some participants argue that nationalism has become a secular form of devotion, akin to religious fanaticism, suggesting that the essence of human nature involves a need for causes to live and die for.
- Others propose that the past should not be forgiven or forgotten, as it reflects a history of beliefs that have justified violence, including organized religions and nationalism.
- A participant clarifies that their statement about not forgiving the past was not a call for revenge but a critique of belief systems that have led to human suffering.
- Some participants assert that many wars were driven by material desires, such as land and wealth, rather than ideological or religious motivations.
- One participant suggests that violence is an inherent part of the human condition, and that societal issues like gang violence and drug-related crime persist regardless of external conflicts.
- Another participant expresses skepticism about the possibility of societal transformation, arguing that true change comes from individual integrity rather than collective enlightenment.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants express a range of views on the role of nationalism and religion in society, with no clear consensus on whether nationalism is replacing religion or if violence can be eliminated from human society. Disagreements exist regarding the motivations behind historical conflicts and the potential for societal change.
Contextual Notes
Some arguments rely on interpretations of historical events and the motivations behind wars, which may not be universally accepted. The discussion also touches on the complexities of human nature and societal dynamics, which are not fully resolved.
Have you ever tried not to sound condescending?
- #32
loseyourname
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
- 1,829
- 5
The Smoking Man said:
I've never tried to sound condescending, if it makes a difference. If I sound that way anyway, I apologize. In case you haven't figured it out, I don't have much of a sense of humor.
And I never use emoticons. I hate those things.
- #33
The Smoking Man
- 67
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Never would have guessed.loseyourname said:
I used to hate them too. Now I find if I use them correctly, I can sometimes say what I think I'm saying. Sarcasm does tend to get a bit lost. If all else fails <sarcasm> </sarcasm> works too.loseyourname said:
One thing you'll find you will get from me is like for like.
Early on you hit me with 'slow down and think. I know you have a point to make somewhere.'
You'll find a lot of me is just a reflection.
- #34
jammieg
The World Is Dying For More War
The world is dying for more war, the reason there is always war is because we are all born dumb animals and grow up as dumb animals learning from experience as we go some of us are more kind and some are more selfish, people who are selfish and greedy and hate tend to prosper while the country is built on the backs of honest workers, in time the selfish teach the young dumb animals to be more selfish and more of them until one day even the president is the son of yesterday's president and everyone is fighiting against each other about red or blue or dem or rep or north or south or black or white it doesn't matter it's all the same, people love conflict and love to hate but the ultimate teacher of what hate is is war, war teaches people where hate leads to and people who have been through war can sometimes teach people who haven't...that's why war leads to greater peace...the Romans knew it to well they built an empire on war, the baby boomers where a result of world war 2...but Vietnam was a joke reason being it isn't the lower and middle class that don't understand it's the whole friggin country from the top down they are all scumhoarders, that's when you know a civilization is on the fall when the fearless leaders and role models who can't be stopped are also corrupted so I'm kinda looking forward to China nuking America and getting this party started, pretty much everyone deserves to die anyway better yet we should all buy guns and make it legal to shoot someone for any reason why procrastinate? We all know there's some people we would like to kill if it were legal just like the wild west days.
The world is dying for more war, the reason there is always war is because we are all born dumb animals and grow up as dumb animals learning from experience as we go some of us are more kind and some are more selfish, people who are selfish and greedy and hate tend to prosper while the country is built on the backs of honest workers, in time the selfish teach the young dumb animals to be more selfish and more of them until one day even the president is the son of yesterday's president and everyone is fighiting against each other about red or blue or dem or rep or north or south or black or white it doesn't matter it's all the same, people love conflict and love to hate but the ultimate teacher of what hate is is war, war teaches people where hate leads to and people who have been through war can sometimes teach people who haven't...that's why war leads to greater peace...the Romans knew it to well they built an empire on war, the baby boomers where a result of world war 2...but Vietnam was a joke reason being it isn't the lower and middle class that don't understand it's the whole friggin country from the top down they are all scumhoarders, that's when you know a civilization is on the fall when the fearless leaders and role models who can't be stopped are also corrupted so I'm kinda looking forward to China nuking America and getting this party started, pretty much everyone deserves to die anyway better yet we should all buy guns and make it legal to shoot someone for any reason why procrastinate? We all know there's some people we would like to kill if it were legal just like the wild west days. - #35
Smurf
- 441
- 3
not reading that till you paragraph it.
- #36
outsider
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jammieg said:
the f-d up thing is, I can agree with most of what you've said, but I don't think we need to relearn the lessons of war by going through it in this day and age. The weapons are way too advanced and we have way too much at stake.
Jammieg, you seem to be giving up hope and saying that it's inevitable that war will begin. Is that a winning attitude? Is that what winners are made of? What happened to never surrender? Never give up?
If you talk to people who have lived through WW2, you will hear them talk about the horrors and see how passionate they are about the war. How they don't wish for another to begin. We are lucky that we don't have these problems. I encourage you to actually speak to people who have lived through war.
People who have nothing to lose always want to do something.
I remember the first few times I played paintball wars, I thought I was Rambo... nothing to lose... but I sat out a lot more than most people... if it was real life... i'd be sitting out right now... in some hole in the ground about 6 feet deep. My family would miss me, my dog would probably die from separation anxiety. Yeah, maybe I sucked... but even good people die for no reason.
No one wins in war... what are you hoping to win? what will your win cost you? Let me live another 40 years without the worries of war in my backyard and that will be a happy life. I don't even need to go to heaven.
- #37
Jonny_trigonometry
- 451
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MaxS said:
But this is a belief in itself (that it's foolish to be part of a religion), which when taken to the limit, results in hatred of established religions, and a desire to make the world better by spreading this idea and those who don't give into it won't be tolerated. This then will lead to a war.
- #38
motai
- 364
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outsider said:I remember the first few times I played paintball wars, I thought I was Rambo... nothing to lose... but I sat out a lot more than most people... if it was real life... i'd be sitting out right now... in some hole in the ground about 6 feet deep. My family would miss me, my dog would probably die from separation anxiety. Yeah, maybe I sucked... but even good people die for no reason.
No one wins in war... what are you hoping to win? what will your win cost you? Let me live another 40 years without the worries of war in my backyard and that will be a happy life. I don't even need to go to heaven.
I too have had a similar thoughts running through my mind when I first played paintball. I never played it after that. There seems to be little mercy in actual wartime, and good people do indeed die, in addition to civilians, women and children.
Lets hope that nuclear wars don't break out... humanity would be completely doomed if it were nuked 14,000 times. A more peaceful worldview would help, but usually power tends to go to the guy who has the biggest guns...
- #39
outsider
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motai said:
I think the realization of your personal weaknesses and tendencies give a good indication of what war can be...
I have a baseless belief that those who are PF are mostly thinking types who fall in a category of people who are capable of less violent resolutions, but after reading some threads, i realize that we can disagree on something trivial and it can be blown beyond proportion.
If everyone realized how they behave under pressure, the world would be a better place.
- #40
TheStatutoryApe
- 296
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I think this stems mainly from people figuring "it's just the internet" so they type things that they most likely wouldn't ever say to a persons face. On another forum I saw an argument get so out of hand that even the mods were insulting people. I've met some of them and know they wouldn't have acted in the same way in person.outsider said:
- #41
outsider
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That is true. I am also a different person around my friends and family.TheStatutoryApe said:
The Internet let too many idiots on... Commercialization of the Internet has resulted in so much negativity... I hate the Internet! But yet I pay $50 a month so I can (as of late) read and post and read thoughts on PF... so yeah, that qualifies me as an idiot... I like PF simply because idiots are afraid to come in here... well, i realize that many of you consider yourselves an idiot to some degree, but this actually makes you less of an idiot...
- #42
The Smoking Man
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- 0
I DO NOT! I consider myself an a$$hole ... not an idiot. (It's okay Russ ... you can agree with me here).outsider said:
Russ, on the other hand ...
- #43
Smurf
- 441
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Yeah, and I'm a god!
- #44
outsider
- 24
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The Smoking Man said:I DO NOT! I consider myself an a$$hole ... not an idiot. (It's okay Russ ... you can agree with me here).
Russ, on the other hand ...
in otherwords, people who don't want to curse would call you an idiot.. jk
