Is Osmosis a Phenomenon of Thermodynamics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of osmosis and its relationship to thermodynamics. Participants explore whether osmosis can be considered a thermodynamic phenomenon and how it relates to energy consumption, particularly thermal energy.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that osmosis "works like a machine" and lifts weight at the expense of thermal energy, seeking clarification on this claim.
  • Others challenge the notion that osmosis consumes thermal energy, arguing that it is driven by differences in chemical potential rather than temperature.
  • A participant references a hyperphysics article that describes osmosis as a diffusion process driven by internal energy, which they equate with thermal energy.
  • Another participant emphasizes that osmosis is a pressure gradient caused by chemical potential, specifically mentioning potassium and sodium.
  • One participant provides a mathematical perspective by relating osmotic pressure to the ideal gas equation, suggesting that osmosis can indeed be considered a phenomenon of thermodynamics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether osmosis consumes thermal energy, with no consensus reached on this point. Some agree that osmosis is a thermodynamic phenomenon, while others dispute the characterization of energy consumption.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various definitions and concepts related to osmosis, chemical potential, and thermodynamics, indicating a reliance on specific interpretations that may not be universally accepted.

larsa
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I have read that osmosis " works like a machine ". It lifts weight ( this is obvious ) on the expense of thermal energy.

Does anyone has any thoughts about how it consumes thermal energy?
Thank you in advance.
 
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larsa said:
I have read that osmosis " works like a machine ". It lifts weight ( this is obvious ) on the expense of thermal energy.
Could you give a reference for that?

larsa said:
Does anyone has any thoughts about how it consumes thermal energy?
I don't see how this can be correct. Osmosis is based on a difference of chemical potential, not temperature. I wouldn't know how to qualify the kind of energy it consumes, but it is not thermal, nor chemical (in the usual sense of that word).
 
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DrClaude said:
Could you give a reference for that?I don't see how this can be correct. Osmosis is based on a difference of chemical potential, not temperature. I wouldn't know how to qualify the kind of energy it consumes, but it is not thermal, nor chemical (in the usual sense of that word).

Thanks for your answer. I don't remember the text where i met this expression but per example the hyperphysics article defines osmosis as a diffusion process driven by internal energy and internal energy is defined as energy associated with random motion of molecules.

That is something like thermal energy if i understand what i read.
 
Osmosis is a pressure gradient, caused by chemical potential. Think potassium and sodium.
 
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Kevin McHugh said:
Osmosis is a pressure gradient, caused by chemical potential. Think potassium and sodium.
When you have time, could you explain what you mean?
 
larsa said:
I have read that osmosis " works like a machine ". It lifts weight ( this is obvious ) on the expense of thermal energy.

Does anyone has any thoughts about how it consumes thermal energy?
Thank you in advance.
I don't know what you mean by "consumes thermal energy."
But anyways, yes osmosis can be considered as being a phenomenom of thermodynamics.

If you take the ideal gas equation, PV=nRT, and arrange it just a bit, you get,
P=(n/V)RT

Replace P with π, and n/V and you get the osomotic pressure equation
π = cRT, where c is the concentration of the solute in moles per liter.

You can read some discussion here,
http://urila.tripod.com/osmotic.htm
 
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256bits said:
I don't know what you mean by "consumes thermal energy."
But anyways, yes osmosis can be considered as being a phenomenom of thermodynamics.

If you take the ideal gas equation, PV=nRT, and arrange it just a bit, you get,
P=(n/V)RT

Replace P with π, and n/V and you get the osomotic pressure equation
π = cRT, where c is the concentration of the solute in moles per liter.

You can read some discussion here,
http://urila.tripod.com/osmotic.htm
Thank you for your answer and especially for the link
 

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