Is Patriotism Just a Form of Nationalism?

[Chemicalsuperfreak]

Originally posted by Zero
I still don't understand the idea of having pride for things outside yourself. I find the same lack of understanding for supporting a sports team, and having pride when they win. I personally do not identify with any group larger than ME.

It's all just extended forms of tribalism. It ensures that our tribe of naked monkies will survive longer than that axis of evil naked monkies across the river.

Wasn't it George Washington who said something to the effect of "patriotism is the last refuge of the idiot" ?

 

[Zero]

Wrong. America is all one team. We're all in this together. We all get to share a piece of the American Dream. And patriotism is not "extreme feelings."

That's simply not true...look at how one political party accuses the other of being 'traitors' because of differing views. Look at the differing lifestyles between different socioeconomic groups. Watch how people start screaming Communism if anyone suggests that we should actually behave like we are all in it together. A thousand religions, dozens of ethnic groups, and a million different opinions on everything. To suggest that America is a single 'team' is absurd.

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by zimbo
First point: a country is an abstract entity comprising of people interacting with each other in a certain way.

There are several aspects of 'patriotism' raised by earlier posts:

1)pride in one's country

2) loyalty to one's country

3) feeling that one's country is superior to that of others, and by extension, that things belonging to one's own country are superior to those same things belonging to that of other countries

4) and by corollary of 3), judging something to be superior simply because it belongs to one's own country.

I'll keep repeating it: 3 and 4 are nationalism, not patriotism. The words are not interchangeable.

That's simply not true...look at how one political party accuses the other of being 'traitors' because of differing views. [/quote.] You don't think there is infighting in sports teams too?

To suggest that Amererica is a single 'team' is absurd.

Zero, I still like the analogy, but here's another way to think of it - if you go to another country and tell them you are an American, will they wait for you to explain your political afiliation and personal beliefs before judging you? NO. Like it or not, you are part of a group as others would identify it. The actions of people you have never met reflect on you personally and there isn't anything you can do about it.

And the questions: "Do you have pride in the fact that you are an American?" or "Are you patriotic?" do not ask anything about your political afiliation. There are certainly other groups you can identify with in ADDITION to being identified with the group "Americans," but "Americans" is not a group you can choose to not be afiliated with. If you answer that first question with no, then the second question must also be answered no.

 

[Locutus]

russ waters is right. What zimbo describes as:

3) feeling that one's country is superior to that of others, and by extension, that things belonging to one's own country are superior to those same things belonging to that of other countries

4) and by corollary of 3), judging something to be superior simply because it belongs to one's own country.

This is not pure patriotism--this is patriotism mixed with militarism. Unfortunately, the sad truth in this world today is that militarism and patriotism are often linked with one another, when they shouldn't be. One should still be able to love his country without thinking that it is superior to other countries of the world.