Is perpetual motion a forbidden topic in the scientific community?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the topic of perpetual motion machines (PMMs) and their acceptance within the scientific community. Participants explore the implications of the impossibility of PMMs on broader concepts such as the universe's beginning and end, while also addressing the reliability of AI-generated information on physics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that perpetual motion machines are impossible due to energy loss, suggesting that the universe does not provide a mechanism for such machines to operate indefinitely.
  • Others express skepticism about the reliability of large language models like ChatGPT for discussing physics, citing misinformation and a lack of mathematical rigor.
  • A participant questions whether the impossibility of PMMs implies that the universe has a definite beginning and end, but this is met with a suggestion that their reasoning may be flawed.
  • There is a mention that discussions about PMMs are considered pseudoscience and are not permitted in the forum, referencing moderation policies.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that perpetual motion machines are impossible and that discussions about them are not appropriate in the forum. However, there is disagreement regarding the implications of this impossibility on the nature of the universe and the validity of AI-generated information.

Contextual Notes

Participants express concerns about the accuracy of AI-generated responses and the implications of PMMs on cosmological theories, but these points remain unresolved and are subject to individual interpretation.

robotkid786
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TL;DR
If perpetual motion is impossible doesn't that mean that the universe has a definite beginning and end?
I've only just clocked this to be the case. I asked chat gpt and the say big bang has a lot of merit apparently
 
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No. Supposed perpetual motion machines always lose energy to somewhere, which is why true perpetual motion machines are impossible. The universe is all there is - there is nowhere for it to lose energy to. So your analogy is flawed.

Do not trust large language models on physics. They are trained on the internet and there is way too much misinformation and not enough maths.
 
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robotkid786 said:
TL;DR Summary: If perpetual motion is impossible doesn't that mean that the universe has a definite beginning and end?
Huh? I think perhaps you misunderstand what a PMM is. Your statement is a non-sequitur.
robotkid786 said:
I've only just clocked this to be the case. I asked chat gpt and the say big bang has a lot of merit apparently
(1) Yes, but it only says that because it is true (although it is an understatement). You possibly don't really understand the Big Bang Theory either.
(2) Do NOT use ChatGPT as a reference here. The moderators have decided (rightly I think) that it's not appropriate. It makes too many mistakes.
 
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Thread locked pending moderation.
 
robotkid786 said:
I asked chat gpt
ChatGPT is not a valid reference here.
 
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robotkid786 said:
TL;DR Summary: If perpetual motion is impossible doesn't that mean that the universe has a definite beginning and end?

I've only just clocked this to be the case. I asked chat gpt and the say big bang has a lot of merit apparently
PMMs are a forbidden topic at PF (for obvious reasons). Please follow the Insights Article link in the rules quote below for more information. This thread will remain closed.

PF Forbidden Topics said:
Pseudoscience, such as (but not limited to):
Perpetual motion and "free energy" discussions (see our Insights Article here)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion
http://www.skepdic.com/freeenergy.html
http://www.skepdic.com/perpetual.html
 
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