Is Pursuing a PhD in Organic Photovoltaics a Smart Career Move?

[armis]

Greetings

I have a dilemma, hopefully some of you can help. And yes I did research a lot about this on google but I think a new discussion is more helpful.

Where did you get your PhD in? Was it worth it? What are the options outside academia?

I have an opportunity to get a PhD position in organic photovoltaics. The salary is great, the group also. From research point of you it's excellent. And I also have experience working in the field since I have been working for 2 years now in an another university. I am currently finishing my master's degree.
What I am wondering though are career prospects after PhD. And I am not entirely sure I want to stay in academia. I do like the field of organic electronics though.

Thanks a lot

 

[twofish-quant]

Where did you get your PhD in?

Computational astrophysics.

Was it worth it?

Hell yes.

What are the options outside academia?

This board has many of them. It's a tricky question because often you'll be working on something that didn't exist when you start your Ph.D., which is cool.

 

[armis]

Thank you twofish-quant

When you just started a PhD where you aware of your possibilities after finishing it outside academia?
Also since you did a lot of programming your experience might be easily transferred elsewhere, is that correct? I mean even outside the realm of physics.

 

[twofish-quant]

When you just started a PhD where you aware of your possibilities after finishing it outside academia?

I knew that there wasn't much of a chance that I was going to get an academic job. As far as what I ended up doing, interesting story here... In August 1991, I was one of the first people to download and compile would be known as the world wide web, and my first reaction was "this looks like it could be interesting."

By the time I got out in 1998, it was in the middle of the dot-com boom, and the bit of time that I spent teaching myself web programming before there were books on web programming turned out to be useful.

But it didn't matter, since I got the Ph.D. for family reasons. My father wasn't able to finish his Ph.d., so as the eldest son, I was sort of being groomed to get a Ph.D. before I was born. For that matter, in talking with my uncle it became obvious that I was expected to get a Ph.d. before my father was born.

Also since you did a lot of programming your experience might be easily transferred elsewhere, is that correct? I mean even outside the realm of physics.

Yes. Personally what worked for me was to just play with whatever seemed interesting to me, and not worry too much about whether there was an obvious job waiting. However, it happens that the things that I'm interested in just happened to be money-makers.

 

[armis]

Thanks, you really have a story to tell! Very interesting

 

[EngCommand]

I knew that there wasn't much of a chance that I was going to get an academic job. As far as what I ended up doing, interesting story here... In August 1991, I was one of the first people to download and compile would be known as the world wide web, and my first reaction was "this looks like it could be interesting."

By the time I got out in 1998, it was in the middle of the dot-com boom, and the bit of time that I spent teaching myself web programming before there were books on web programming turned out to be useful.

But it didn't matter, since I got the Ph.D. for family reasons. My father wasn't able to finish his Ph.d., so as the eldest son, I was sort of being groomed to get a Ph.D. before I was born. For that matter, in talking with my uncle it became obvious that I was expected to get a Ph.d. before my father was born.


Yes. Personally what worked for me was to just play with whatever seemed interesting to me, and not worry too much about whether there was an obvious job waiting. However, it happens that the things that I'm interested in just happened to be money-makers.

So what do you do for a living now? I'm guessing something in finance. A lot of my computational chemist colleagues ended up in finance.

 

[ModusPwnd]

No, not for me. I attempted a Phd but am not smart enough to do it. It ended up being a financial disaster for me. But if you are smart enough to do it it may land you a good job.

 

[armis]

Thanks ModusPwnd

In what area did you work if I may ask? Were you in a self-funded position?

 

[ParticleGrl]

I did a phd in particle physics. I finished about 18 months ago, and its too soon to tell if it will be worth it. Since I graduated, I've been working as a bartender and applying for jobs in engineering and technical fields.

If I eventually land a job where I can use some of my hard-won training, then I would say yes. If I gradually forget everything I learned while continuing to work in the service industry, then I would say no.

 

[EngCommand]

I did a phd in particle physics. I finished about 18 months ago, and its too soon to tell if it will be worth it. Since I graduated, I've been working as a bartender and applying for jobs in engineering and technical fields.

If I eventually land a job where I can use some of my hard-won training, then I would say yes. If I gradually forget everything I learned while continuing to work in the service industry, then I would say no.

Eugh, that's a hard situation to be in. I can only imagine how frustrating that must be. What technical areas are you applying for jobs in?

 

[ModusPwnd]

Thanks ModusPwnd

In what area did you work if I may ask? Were you in a self-funded position?

No, I wasn't self funded. Not at first. I worked in a solid state / condensed matter lab. But I couldn't pass the qual and had to fund myself to finish my masters, which was not a financially wise decision. Now I have undergrad and grad debt with no career. :( With how much I make in the restaurant I can't afford my student loans, so I take two community college classes to keep my loans in deferment.Of course my experience isn't typical, but its something to keep in mind. Going to university can be very bad choice for some.

 

[eri]

I did a PhD in observational/computational astrophysics (although the PhD just says 'physics', and that has been very useful). I did a shot postdoc at a NASA center, but decided I didn't want to spend the rest of my life just doing research, so I'm teaching college and just landed a tenure-track position, starting next year. I'm pretty sure that's what I want to do (teach and do research - it's a liberal arts school) so I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. The PhD in physics instead of astronomy or astrophysics let me apply to a wider range of colleges for faculty positions.

 

[TMFKAN64]

I did a Ph.D. in computer science, and promptly turned my back on academia and headed into industry.

The Ph.D. has never been anything but a benefit to me, but aside from the financial aspects, it would have been worth it on a purely personal level. I hesitate to use cliches like "mind expanding"... but that's exactly what it was.

 

[ParticleGrl]

Eugh, that's a hard situation to be in. I can only imagine how frustrating that must be. What technical areas are you applying for jobs in?

I'm applying for anything and everything in my geographical area, but numerical programming seems the most likely area to eventually take me. Unfortunately, my phd was mostly pen and paper work so I'm trying to develop more programming skills on the side. Sadly, I'm now getting the "why have you been working as a bartender for the last year?" questions in job interviews.

 

[Choppy]

I did a PhD in medical physics. I followed this with a post-doc (which I chose over an immediate residency option) and then a residency and now work as a medical physicist and have an adjunct appointment with a university. For me the PhD was definitely worth it.

The medical physics PhD included a lot of profession-specific training and I consider it both a professional degree as well as an academic one. There were a lot of options available to me in this field when I finished including purely clinical positions, academic positions, and industrial positions.

I didn't chose the industrial path, but I know several people who have. These peope have gone into:
- research and development positions
- "engineering" positions which in these larger technical companies often means high tech troubleshooting
- teaching positions (teaching customers how hardware/software works, delivering seminars at conferences)
- technical sales
- project managment

Not all of these positions "required" a PhD of course, so in that sense, you might argue that the PhD is not worth it. But my own observations, for whatever they are worth, tend to suggest that PhDs advance quickly in such settings. I don't know if this is a bottleneck effect of PhDs being smarter than the average bear, or if it has more to do with the depth of the academic training - probably a combination of both.

 

[deRham]

Since I graduated, I've been working as a bartender and applying for jobs in engineering and technical fields.

I am only curious, but what about teaching or something along those lines? I would have thought that to be a standard resort.

My interests are also in pen and paper work.

 

[deRham]

but decided I didn't want to spend the rest of my life just doing research, so I'm teaching college and just landed a tenure-track position, starting next year

Do liberal arts schools pay you to research as well? How was the hiring process different from hiring for research universities, in your experience?

 

[ParticleGrl]

I am only curious, but what about teaching or something along those lines? I would have thought that to be a standard resort.

Right now, high school aren't hiring much in the US (in fact, they've been firing). Maybe as property taxes recover, this trend will reverse.

I've looked into adjuncting, but its not really a solution to a job (pay seems to be about 2k for a 4 credit class). I've applied for some lecturer positions, but haven't had much luck. And I don't know if it makes sense to take the pay cut from bartending for a single year position without very good career prospects. Tenure track type positions at liberal arts colleges are fairly competitive in their own right- they seem to prefer postdoc and industry experience to fresh phds.

 

[EngCommand]

Right now, high school aren't hiring much in the US (in fact, they've been firing). Maybe as property taxes recover, this trend will reverse.

I've looked into adjuncting, but its not really a solution to a job (pay seems to be about 2k for a 4 credit class). I've applied for some lecturer positions, but haven't had much luck. And I don't know if it makes sense to take the pay cut from bartending for a single year position without very good career prospects. Tenure track type positions at liberal arts colleges are fairly competitive in their own right- they seem to prefer postdoc and industry experience to fresh phds.

Why don't you get a postdoc stint for a few years? Surely it beats working at a restaurant.

 

[ParticleGrl]

Why don't you get a postdoc stint for a few years? Surely it beats working at a restaurant.

A combination of reasons- the strongest one is a geographical constraint. If you aren't willing to move across the world, your postdoc options can be really limited (or non-existent). The next strongest is probably pay- I'd take home significantly less than half of what I make bartending as a postdoc. I'm at the stage in my life where I need to start paying off school loans and trying to get myself to a more sound economic footing- I'm hoping to start a family in the next few years. Three years spent bartending and expanding my programming skill set seems like it will put a lot more money in my pocket and leave me in a better place in the job market than doing a postdoc (which would just be 3 more years of pen-and-paper physics
+whatever I do on the side). I simply can't devote 3+ more years to a "student/trainee" phase if the actual career prospects are so tenuous.

 

[Lavabug]

I did a PhD in observational/computational astrophysics (although the PhD just says 'physics', and that has been very useful). I did a shot postdoc at a NASA center, but decided I didn't want to spend the rest of my life just doing research, so I'm teaching college and just landed a tenure-track position, starting next year. I'm pretty sure that's what I want to do (teach and do research - it's a liberal arts school) so I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. The PhD in physics instead of astronomy or astrophysics let me apply to a wider range of colleges for faculty positions.

Could you please expand on this a bit? Did you choose that phd program specifically because it might seem more versatile to employers? Or did you get a choice in what your PhD actually says? I find myself going down a similar route: want to do a phd in the same field.

Will you get to do your line of research at the liberal arts school or do you have to do something else?

And what does everyone have to say about the following idea: doing a phd just for the hell of it? Just as a life experience thing and later make one's living from something like teaching at private high schools? Would that be wasteful? I don't think I'd like going down the other non-academic paths like IT and finance that many astrophysicists take.

 

[EngCommand]

A combination of reasons- the strongest one is a geographical constraint. If you aren't willing to move across the world, your postdoc options can be really limited (or non-existent). The next strongest is probably pay- I'd take home significantly less than half of what I make bartending as a postdoc. I'm at the stage in my life where I need to start paying off school loans and trying to get myself to a more sound economic footing- I'm hoping to start a family in the next few years. Three years spent bartending and expanding my programming skill set seems like it will put a lot more money in my pocket and leave me in a better place in the job market than doing a postdoc (which would just be 3 more years of pen-and-paper physics
+whatever I do on the side). I simply can't devote 3+ more years to a "student/trainee" phase if the actual career prospects are so tenuous.

Jesus christ, how much do they pay postdocs in the USA? Here in the UK it's at least £30,000/year ($46278/year). There's no way I could make £30,000/year working in a bar.

 

[daveyrocket]

It definitely was not worth it for me. Graduate school mortally wounded my interest in physics, and my postdoc has completely finished it off. My skill set doesn't seem to be at all useful outside the field unless I want to be a programmer, and I don't. In fact, not wanting to be a programmer was one of the reasons I went to graduate school.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Postdocs in the US make an average of around $42,000. There is rather substantial variation in this figure. Bartenders in the US can make more than bartenders in the UK though - a lot more, depending on tips.

 

[ModusPwnd]

Jesus christ, how much do they pay postdocs in the USA? Here in the UK it's at least £30,000/year ($46278/year). There's no way I could make £30,000/year working in a bar.

Tipped restaurant workers in the US generally make between 30k and 50k a year IF they work full time (but most work part time). I deliver pizza and earn the lower end of that range.

 

[eri]

Do liberal arts schools pay you to research as well? How was the hiring process different from hiring for research universities, in your experience?

Most liberal arts colleges expect their faculty to do research, and to involve undergraduate students in research projects. So they don't overload you with classes (give you some time for research) and have professional development money to spend on equipment, travel, and publication costs.

When I applied for liberal arts colleges, I emphasized my (small amount of) teaching background (mostly TAing, and I was luck enough to get a visiting professor position right out of my postdoc). When I interviewed, I did a teaching demonstration and gave a research talk (emphasizing what projects included undergraduate researchers). For me, it's the best of both worlds - I've always loved teaching and college campuses/towns, but I didn't want to give up my research completely. I just didn't want to spend all of my time on it anymore.

 

[eri]

Could you please expand on this a bit? Did you choose that phd program specifically because it might seem more versatile to employers? Or did you get a choice in what your PhD actually says? I find myself going down a similar route: want to do a phd in the same field.

Will you get to do your line of research at the liberal arts school or do you have to do something else?

And what does everyone have to say about the following idea: doing a phd just for the hell of it? Just as a life experience thing and later make one's living from something like teaching at private high schools? Would that be wasteful? I don't think I'd like going down the other non-academic paths like IT and finance that many astrophysicists take.

I applied to astronomy, astrophysics, and physics programs, and I ended up in a physics program where the department was 'physics and astronomy'. I took all the courses any physics PhD student would take (and the physics qualifying exams) but my research area was astrophysics. There aren't a ton of jobs in academia for astronomers, and a lot of competition, so if you can also apply for jobs in physics, you'll have a better shot at getting something you like (as long as you don't mind teaching physics). For most faculty job applications, I wrote my letter as 'physicist who can teach astronomy' instead of 'astronomer who can teach physics'. Many departments (even the one I'm at now) tend to think astronomers can't teach physics, but physicists can teach astronomy.

My research is computational and observational - I don't need supercomputers, and I have a lot of collaborations that give me data, so I didn't need much in the way of start-up funding. That was another plus when applying for jobs at smaller colleges - I didn't need lab space and it wasn't going to cost them another 100k to support my research.

A PhD is a lot of work - probably not worth doing just for the hell of it unless you're independently wealthy and have a ton of free time on your hands. For those of us who needed to then get a job with it, doing the physics PhD at least leaves you more options.

 

[ParticleGrl]

Most liberal arts colleges expect their faculty to do research, and to involve undergraduate students in research projects.

So a note to people considering a phd- you can dramatically expand your options for academic positions by focusing on research that you can conceivable involve undergraduates in. Its difficult to convince a hiring a committee that you can involve undergrads in pen-and-paper theory.

 

[sandy.bridge]

Well, hopefully you are at least having some fun with your current job, ParticleGrl.

 

[deRham]

@ParticleGrl, thanks for your advice and clarifications. If only my stuff were anywhere close to non-pen-and-paper.

I would hope though that, since mentoring students in pen and paper subjects is still a profession by itself, that there's still some demand at the liberal arts schools for such a thing. It's definitely possible to give an undergraduate an interesting problem to toy with based on the student's background.