Is signal reconstruction possible using phase/magnitude only

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of reconstructing a signal using only its phase or magnitude derived from the Fourier Transform. Participants explore the implications of phase and magnitude in signal reconstruction, particularly in the context of complex waveforms and sound perception.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether it is feasible to reconstruct a signal using only its phase or magnitude, suggesting that both components are typically necessary for accurate reconstruction.
  • One participant mentions that while the ear may not notice phase in sound, the shape of the wave is still important for accurate representation, especially in complex waveforms.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of minimal phase reconstruction, outlining a method that involves using the Hilbert transform to estimate the imaginary part of a signal when only the magnitude is known.
  • There is a discussion about the perception of sound, where one participant argues that phase differences can affect how sounds are interpreted, particularly when two frequencies are close together.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the importance of phase versus magnitude in signal reconstruction. While some acknowledge the potential for reconstruction using only one component under certain conditions, others argue that both are generally necessary, leading to an unresolved debate.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific definitions of phase and magnitude, as well as the conditions under which reconstruction may or may not be successful. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical or theoretical implications of these approaches.

ramdas
Messages
78
Reaction score
0
I am studying Fourier Transform and it's inverse. We get phase and magnitude of a signal from it's Fourier transform and reconstruct it back from both together(magnitude of signal +phase of signal)

My question is that is it possible to reconstruct given signal back using it's phase only or magnitude only?
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
ramdas said:
I am studying Fourier Transform and it's inverse. We get phase and magnitude of a signal from it's Fourier transform and reconstruct it back from both together(magnitude of signal +phase of signal)

My question is that is it possible to reconstruct given signal back using it's phase only or magnitude only?
For a complex waveform, we would need to add each component in its correct amplitude and phase in order to obtain the correct shape. But for sound, the ear does not seem to notice the phase, so the shape of the wave is not important provided the spectral response is correct.
 
There is such a notion as a minimal phase reconstruction in signal processing. Here's an outline of the process:
Suppose you have an analytic signal:
x(t)=A(t)eiφ(t)

Then (a) log of the signal would be:
log(x(t)) = log(|A(t)|)+iφ(t)

Now, what if we just have A(t)?
You can take log(|A(t)|) and call it the real part of an analytic signal, but what about the imaginary part?
It turns out you can take what is called the Hilbert transform of log(|A(t)|) to get a good candidate for the missing imaginary part. Add the real and imaginary parts, then exponentiate to get your reconstruction.

If you have access to MATLAB, you can try this out using the built in 'hilbert' function. If you pass it a time series, it uses the Fast Fourier Transform to make an analytic signal.
 
tech99 said:
For a complex waveform, we would need to add each component in its correct amplitude and phase in order to obtain the correct shape. But for sound, the ear does not seem to notice the phase, so the shape of the wave is not important provided the spectral response is correct.
That is true for short timescales (e.g. if you want to describe a single note played by an instrument at constant amplitude) but it is not true in general.
Consider a 440 Hz wave and a 441 Hz wave at the same amplitude together: a human will interpret this as ~440 Hz sound that oscillates in amplitude once per second. The question "when do we hear sound?" depends on the phases of the two waves.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
5K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K