News Is the Arab Peace Initiative the key to achieving peace in the Middle East?

[leopard]

The best way to defeat these people is to give them no events to exploit. Then in a few years, people will begin to wonder why they have to die for the cause.

Sounds like a good plan. How do we do that?

 

[leopard]

Islamic extremists are no different than national extremists. If all religion, or all of Islam is to blame for terrorists, then all who say the pledge of allegence, and patriotism, are responsible for Hitler and his kind.

True. Moreover, islamists aren't real muslims.

 

[jreelawg]

We start by aiming at stabilizing regions and showing that we aren't just there to kill people. In Afganistan we could have been heros for helping them defeat the russians, but as soon as the russians gave up, we left them to be devoured by the very forces we created. We could have invested in schools and helped to rebuild some of the lively hood of the state. Instead we showed no concern for those problems. As a result we now have a breeding ground of terrorists.

There is a sentement out there that the U.S. isn't out there to help them but instead to hurt them. Those people need to see for there own eyes that we don't just come to find our enemies and kill them meanwhile messing up things for innocent bystanders, but that we have an interest in establishing peace in the region and that our presence is a good thing for them.

The real war is in the minds of the people, and we have to fight on that battlefield as well. If people see that the U.S. is building schools and helping farmers, then that will be working in our favor for the long run.

If we can bring improved conditions then people will side with us eventually. Bringing bad conditions as a side effect of our national interests hunting terrorists will only empower the terrorist movement.

What we should not do is be clumsy when we do our air strikes and what not. One event in which innocent civilians die can bring rise to an enormous amount of anti americanism.

 

[mheslep]

... What constitutes by far the biggest frustration is the role the West had had on the creation of an exclusively Jewish state on land that was until then inhabited largely by non-Jewish Arabs.

No. At the time, not until then.

 

[Werg22]

Well, it wasn't exactly yesterday when the Arabs settled in the region.

 

[mheslep]

Well, it wasn't exactly yesterday when the Arabs settled in the region.

Nor was it just yesterday, or even 1947, when Jews first settled in the region.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

Nor was it just yesterday, or even 1947, when Jews first settled in the region.

I'm not going to comment on the situation in Palestine either way, but it's notable that honoring a 2,000 year old claim by the Israelis has interesting implications for Native American land claims within the Americas, which are all less than 500 years old, some less than a hundred.

⚛​

 

[mheslep]

I'm not going to comment on the situation in Palestine either way, ...

Then start another thread.

 

[jreelawg]

My opinion is that stealing the land was not only a retarded idea, but also morally wrong.

Anyways, why would people want to go live on an island surrounded by their sworn enemies.

The fact that it can't be taken back and it won't change makes it a moot point however when trying to find real solutions.

 

[leopard]

Hating people for a reason is one thing, but hating them because they belong to another religion is really, really low. I don't know if there really is as much hate in the Middle East that one can get an impression of from TV. There's no reason to hate your neighbour just because he happens to believe in the same god as he who killed your grandmother.

Some of them believe that they have divine permission (and even obligation) to live there, but I don't understand why people would want to go live on an island surrounded by their sworn enemies.

 

[AhmedEzz]

Ok,look, I want to make a few points :

1) Islam does not dictate terrorism but it is being claimed by terrorists to expand and recruit terrorists.

2) Egypt, Algeria and many Muslim countries had their share of terrorism, but who cared at that time ?? no one.

3) Muslims do not hate Jews because of their religion. Muslims and Jews lived peacefully before (in Egypt we had Jewish actors, Jewish neighborhoods and everyone was friendly). I'm a Muslim and take my word, there's nothing religious about hatred. The 60-year old conflict made severe damage to the portrait of Jews on the ME, not religion.

4) I don't understand why Israel, the US and Europe are rejecting peace? Israel became a reality for the Arab world. Arabian countries recognized Israel and offered peace, why is it being rejected , i don't know. Given ofcourse, that Israel has the ability to survive and has one of the world's most advanced military arsenal.

 

[Astronuc]

4) I don't understand why Israel, the US and Europe are rejecting peace? Israel became a reality for the Arab world. Arabian countries recognized Israel and offered peace, why is it being rejected , i don't know. Given ofcourse, that Israel has the ability to survive and has one of the world's most advanced military arsenal.

I think its because Hamas and Hezbollah occasionally shoot rockets or make military incursions into Israel and target Israeli citizens.

There is also the matter of Jewish settlements in the W. Bank, and the animosity tit-for-tat shooting that goes on.

I think there are people on both sides of the conflict (that is Israel/Palestine - and excluding Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan) that have a vested interest in maintaining the conflict.

 

[mheslep]

3) Muslims do not hate Jews because of their religion. ... I'm a Muslim and take my word, there's nothing religious about hatred.

Taken at its best, perhaps so. However, the fact remains that we have:

(Koran 8:12) "Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them."
(Koran 2:216) "Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, you knew not."
(Koran 22: 19-22) "These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling fluid will be poured down their heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."
(Koran 76: 4) "Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers chains, yokes and a blazing fire."

 

[mheslep]

4) ...Arabian countries recognized Israel and offered peace, why is it being rejected , i don't know. ...

Besides Egypt, which Arab countries would that be?
The Hamas led Palestinians do not

Palestinian minister Abdel Rahman Zeidan told the BBC the Hamas-Fatah document did not in any way recognize the state of Israel.

"There is no agreement between the Palestinians on specifically this phrase. You will not find one word in the document clearly stating the recognition of Israel as a state. Nobody has agreed to this. This was not on the table. This was not in the dialogue,"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5122822.stm

 

[russ_watters]

Nor is it true that Israel and the US reject peace - in fact, just the opposite is true: They have put proposals on the table, but they never get anywhere because of the other side's rejection of the existence of Israel.

Regarding 1, 2, and 3, regardless of what the Koran "actually" teaches - which, like any religious text is very subject to interpretation - the fact of the matter is that it is used by terrorists as a recruiting tool and used by major countries as a basis for anti-Israel (not to mention anti-woman) policies. So it isn't really relevant what the "right" interpretation is at this point. We have to deal with the reality of the interpretation being used for all this evil. This is the same as how it works in the US when we get the occasional Christian (or eco) terrorist: It is irrelevant that some abortion clinic sniper think's he's doing God's work: it's still illegal and he still must be stopped.

 

[AhmedEzz]

Taken at its best, perhaps so. However, the fact remains that we have:

(Koran 8:12) "Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them."
(Koran 2:216) "Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, you knew not."
(Koran 22: 19-22) "These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling fluid will be poured down their heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."
(Koran 76: 4) "Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers chains, yokes and a blazing fire."

Those verses describe the torture in hell for non-believers

the other side's rejection of the existence of Israel.

In almost every Arab leaders' summit, they manage to come up with a peace proposal that recognizes Israel and its right to exist, establishes normal relations with Israel, recognizes the right of Palestinians to return to their country, recognizes Eastern Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine and asks Israel to return to the borders of Palestine. I can get evidence but I think you all know this already.

I think its because Hamas and Hezbollah occasionally shoot rockets or make military incursions into Israel and target Israeli citizens.

This was before the Hamas gaining control in Gaza. Moreover, if Israel accepted the peace treaty the Arab world and especially Egypt will with no doubt do everything they can to enforce it...it is a crucial matter for them to end this mess.

 

[mheslep]

...In almost every Arab leaders' summit, they manage to come up with a peace proposal that recognizes Israel and its right to exist, ...I can get evidence but I think you all know this already.

I know no such thing. If by Arab leader's summit you mean the Arab league, they have not recognized Israel. They have proposed conditional recognition of Israel, in the future, if Israel were to meet certain demands. Though for a short time the Palestinians under the PLO (via Oslo) agreed to recognize Israel, Hamas now flatly refuses to do so, as the link above shows.

 

[seycyrus]

In almost every Arab leaders' summit, they manage to come up with a peace proposal that recognizes Israel and its right to exist, ... I can get evidence but I think you all know this already.

I would like to see this evidence.

 

[AhmedEzz]

The Arab Peace Initiative

The plan consists of a proposal to end the Arab-Israeli conflict...The initiative is based upon:

* The principle of Land for peace.
* The conviction of the Arab countries that a military solution to the conflict will not achieve peace or provide security for the parties.

The goals of the initiative are:

* Full Israeli withdrawal from all the Arab territories occupied since June 1967
* Implementation of United Nations Security Council resolutions 242 and 338.
* The establishment of an independent Palestinian state, with East Jerusalem as its capital
* A just solution to the Palestinian Refugee problem, to be agreed upon in accordance with section 11 of UN General Assembly Resolution 194.
* The normalization of relations in the context of a comprehensive peace

The initiative was fully endorsed by the Arab League at the Riyadh Summit in 2007 by all members as well as by the Muslim World Summit which gave it complete credibility for if it is undertaken the normalization with Israel will be done by the entire Muslim and Arab Worlds.
...
Israeli Prime Minister Olmert has welcomed the plan, with reservations on a pull back from East Jerusalem and resettlement of Palestinians in Israel proper.
...
In November 2008 The Sunday Times reported that American president-elect Barack Obama is going to support the plan, saying to Mahmoud Abbas during his July 2008 visit to the Middle East that "The Israelis would be crazy not to accept this initiative. It would give them peace with the Muslim world from Indonesia to Morocco."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative"