Is the clotting issue with the Oxford vaccine being blown out of proportion?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concerns regarding blood clotting associated with the Oxford-AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine, exploring whether these concerns are being exaggerated compared to other vaccines. Participants examine statistical occurrences of clotting, public perception, and the implications for vaccination rates.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion over the heightened concern regarding the Oxford vaccine's clotting issue, suggesting that similar risks exist with all vaccines.
  • Others argue that the fear surrounding the vaccine is largely driven by public perception and the desire to avoid newly tested vaccines.
  • A participant notes that the specific type of blood clotting linked to the AstraZeneca vaccine is unusual and differs from typical blood clots, which may mislead comparisons with general population rates.
  • Some participants highlight that the reported incidence of blood clotting from the Oxford vaccine is low, with one participant citing a rate of 4 in a million cases.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of vaccine hesitancy on herd immunity, particularly for individuals who cannot be vaccinated for health reasons.
  • A later reply mentions that Danish health authorities have paused the use of AstraZeneca due to concerns about blood clotting, reflecting a shift in vaccination strategy based on emerging data.
  • Participants discuss the varying statistics regarding the risk of developing VITT syndrome, with some citing a risk of 1 in 40,000 while others mention a 1 in 250,000 chance in Australia.
  • There is mention of the treatability of the clotting condition and the associated mortality rates, with some participants attempting to contextualize these risks against everyday dangers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the severity of the clotting issue and its implications for vaccine acceptance. There is no consensus on whether the concerns are justified or exaggerated, and multiple competing views remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various statistics and studies, but there are limitations in the clarity of definitions and the context of the data presented. The discussion reflects ongoing uncertainty regarding the risks associated with the Oxford vaccine compared to other vaccines.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals concerned about vaccine safety, public health officials, and those studying vaccine hesitancy and its societal impacts.

  • #31
Ygggdrasil said:
My criticism of the estimate in the paper is that the denominator for the estimate of the incidence of CVT after COVID-19 vaccination is likely wrong.

The paper looked at anonymized electronic health records from 59 healthcare organizations primarily in the USA. These organizations cover 81 million patients according to the authors. Their data looks at the population of people who received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccination before March 25, 2021. According to the CDC, 95 million people had received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccination by March 25. This amounts to about 29% of the US population. However, their dataset only has N = 489,871 patients who received a COVID-19 vaccination (0.6% of the 81 million patients). They observed 2 cases of CVT in this cohort, which is the source of the 4.1 per million statistic. However, only 490 thousand vaccinated individuals in this cohort is an implausibly low number; the expected number of vaccinated individuals should be ~23 million, which would lower the incidence of CVT to ~0.09 per million in the two weeks after vaccination.

This discrepancy in the observed number vaccinated versus the expected number vaccinated likely comes about because vaccinations in the US are being distributed through a number of means, not necessarily through one's primary healthcare provider (e.g. thorough pharmacies or mass vaccination sites run by the government). Therefore, patients who got vaccinated through these means would not have a record of vaccination in these electronic health records. This information would only be entered if the patient had to go to their healthcare provider for another reason. Thus, the method has a selection bias for vaccinated people who experienced adverse events. This error could have come about because the authors are from Oxford University in the UK, so they may not be familiar with how the US healthcare and vaccine distribution system has been operating.

Assuming that ~29% of the patient population was vaccinated (as opposed to the 0.6% they observe), the risk of CVT in the sample would drop significantly (by a factor of ~50, which would bring the incidence of CVT in the vaccinated cohort below the expected incidence of CVT).

I will write to the authors of the study to notify them of this major flaw in their data.
I think your first sentence summarizes the real problem, people are trying to make sense of very low frequency events and currently each new data set seems to muddy the water rather than clarify things. Hopefully given time the picture will become more accurate. Remember we still have the very basic argument about whether this is even a real effect, the data we have is so contaminated by other effects. There seems to be some basic differences in many of the groups studied these might include age, gender, risk of exposure, dose of exposure, ethnicity etc, so we end up with some big differences in findings.
 
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  • #32
Ygggdrasil said:
I will write to the authors of the study to notify them of this major flaw in their data.
I think you are correct. In fact, taking into account your analysis, I am not sure it would pass peer review. That is the problem with this pandemic - things move so fast papers before peer-review are discussed. They then get discussed in the media. A talk show discussed this paper last night where the host observed just who do you believe with so much conflicting information around. I well remember the egg I had on my face when I argued with Chemisttre about the value of face masks. We had experts, a number with Nobel's in Epidemomology like Peter Doherty, who said face masks are useless. I was wrong - Chemisttre was right:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

Despite the evidence of their value, there are still people that say they are useless. It's a problem - maybe even one of the biggest issues with this pandemic.

As an aside, I did not know that about the way things are done in the US either. You live and learn. Here in Aus we have a centralised database of everyone's Covid vaccine - what little has been done :nb):nb):nb):nb).

Thanks
Bill
 
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  • #33
Useful slide from the April 23 ACIP meeting that puts the relative risk of thrombotic thrombocytopenia from the Johnson & Johnson vaccine into context with other vaccine-related adverse events:
1619374827373.png

(source)
 

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