Is the Coulomb Force Limited by the Pauli Exclusion Principle in Hydrogen Atoms?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of the Coulomb force in relation to the Pauli exclusion principle, particularly in the context of hydrogen atoms. Participants explore whether charges can collapse under Coulomb attraction, the implications of charge distributions, and the characteristics of bound states formed by unlike charges.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether charges can collapse under Coulomb attraction, drawing a parallel to gravitational collapse in charge-less matter.
  • Another participant argues that like-sign charges repel each other, suggesting that a non-zero charge distribution would not collapse but rather disperse due to Coulomb repulsion.
  • A participant introduces the scenario of two unlike charges being held apart and then released, prompting inquiry into their behavior as they approach each other.
  • It is proposed that unlike charges would form a bound state, potentially emitting photons during the process.
  • Clarification is sought regarding the concept of a bound state, with an example provided of a hydrogen atom as a system of a proton and an electron.
  • Another participant considers a head-on collision scenario between the proton and electron, questioning the nature of the bound state formed without angular momentum.
  • A response emphasizes that the ground state of hydrogen has no angular momentum, indicating that all bound states of a proton and electron are hydrogen atoms, whether in the ground or excited states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the behavior of charges under the Coulomb force, particularly regarding collapse versus dispersion, and the nature of bound states. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the Pauli exclusion principle and the strong force in their arguments, but the implications of these concepts in relation to the Coulomb force and charge behavior are not fully explored or agreed upon.

Abeer Arora
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Can charges collapse under coulomb attraction like charge-less matter does under gravity? In a way it's similar to asking about the lower limit of coulomb force if there is any. Also, does Pauli exclusion principle save the day just as in the case of gravity?
 
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Why should any charge distribution collapse under the Coulomb force? Like-sign charges repell each other, and thus any non-zero charge distribution rather flies appart under the influence of the repulsive Coulomb force. Indeed you need the strong force to hold atomic nuclei together against the Coulomb repulsion of the protons. That's why for larger nuclei you need more and more neutrons to stabilize them against Coulomb repulsion.
 
I mentioned coulomb attraction for unlike charges. Say, if two unlike charges were held at a distance away from each other and then left to themselves what would happen after they get very close to each other?
 
They form a bound state, emitting one or more photons on the way, and/or react with each other in some way (e.g. annihilation for particle/antiparticle pairs).
 
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And what's a bound state-with less technical details pls.
 
Something like a hydrogen atom for example. A positive particle (a proton) and a negative particle (an electron) bound together.
 
Consider the case where there's a head on collision between the two( impact parameter=0) giving the electron no reason to orbit around the proton. What sort of bound state would be formed then?
 
What do you mean by "reason"?

The ground state of hydrogen has no angular momentum.

Every bound state of a proton and an electron is a hydrogen atom, if it is not in the ground state it is in an excited state (or a superposition of that and the ground state).
 

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