Is the d'Alambert principle universal?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the d'Alembert principle in classical mechanics, specifically focusing on the derivation of a formula involving the gradient of constraints and infinitesimal displacements. Participants are examining the mathematical implications of the principle and its universality.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are questioning the validity of assuming that the product of an infinitesimal displacement and the gradient of constraints equals zero. There is a discussion about whether this principle is only approximately true and how higher-order terms in the Taylor expansion affect this assumption.

Discussion Status

Some participants are exploring the relationship between the gradient of the constraints and the infinitesimal displacement, with one suggesting that the gradient must be perpendicular to the displacement. There is an ongoing inquiry into the proof of this relationship and the implications for the d'Alembert principle.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of Taylor's formula and the implications of infinitesimal quantities in the context of classical mechanics, raising questions about the assumptions underlying the derivation presented in the lecture.

r4nd0m
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In a lecture on classical mechanics, the professor derived a formula, which is a part of the D'Alambert principle: [tex]\nabla \Phi_{\alpha} \cdot \delta \vec{r} = 0[/tex] where [tex]\Phi_{\alpha}[/tex] are the restraints. He derived it in a strange way from the Taylor's formula:
[tex]\Phi_{\alpha} (\vec{r} + \delta \vec{r}) = \Phi_{\alpha} (\vec{r}) + \delta \vec{r} \cdot \nabla \Phi_{\alpha} + ...[/tex]
He said that the element [tex]\delta \vec{r}[/tex] is infinitesimal and that [tex]\vec{r} , \vec{r} + \delta \vec{r}[/tex] satisfy the restraints.
I understand that the term on the left side of Taylor's formula and the first term on the right side must be therefore equal to zero i.e:
[tex]0 = \delta \vec{r} \cdot \nabla \Phi_{\alpha} + ...[/tex].
And here comes the critical point. He said that since [tex]\delta \vec{r}[/tex] is very small [tex]\delta \vec{r} \cdot \nabla \Phi_{\alpha} = 0[/tex]
My question is why - there are also the higher terms in the formula. For "very small" elements it might be almost true, but only approximately. So is this principle only approximately true? Can someone derive the last step in a more mathematical way? Thanks a lot.
 
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r4nd0m said:
In a lecture on classical mechanics, the professor derived a formula, which is a part of the D'Alambert principle: [tex]\nabla \Phi_{\alpha} \cdot \delta \vec{r} = 0[/tex] where [tex]\Phi_{\alpha}[/tex] are the restraints. He derived it in a strange way from the Taylor's formula:
[tex]\Phi_{\alpha} (\vec{r} + \delta \vec{r}) = \Phi_{\alpha} (\vec{r}) + \delta \vec{r} \cdot \nabla \Phi_{\alpha} + ...[/tex]
He said that the element [tex]\delta \vec{r}[/tex] is infinitesimal and that [tex]\vec{r} , \vec{r} + \delta \vec{r}[/tex] satisfy the restraints.
I understand that the term on the left side of Taylor's formula and the first term on the right side must be therefore equal to zero i.e:
[tex]0 = \delta \vec{r} \cdot \nabla \Phi_{\alpha} + ...[/tex].
And here comes the critical point. He said that since [tex]\delta \vec{r}[/tex] is very small [tex]\delta \vec{r} \cdot \nabla \Phi_{\alpha} = 0[/tex]
My question is why - there are also the higher terms in the formula. For "very small" elements it might be almost true, but only approximately. So is this principle only approximately true? Can someone derive the last step in a more mathematical way? Thanks a lot.
I'm not sure, but here is what comes to mind.

It seems to me you are saying you have no problem believing that
[tex]\Phi_{\alpha} (\vec{r} + \delta \vec{r}) = \Phi_{\alpha} (\vec{r})[/tex]
which justifies the first cancellation of terms. If that is true, then the gradient of [tex]\Phi_{\alpha}[/tex] must be perpendicular to [tex]\delta \vec{r}[/tex] which makes the dot product vanish because of orthogonality. The higher order terms are all that is left.
 
Last edited:
If that is true, then the gradient of [tex]\Phi_{\alpha}[/tex]must be perpendicular to [tex]\delta \vec{r}[/tex]

Why? Can you prove it?
 
r4nd0m said:
Why? Can you prove it?
Yes. It is proved by [tex]\Phi_{\alpha} (\vec{r} + \delta \vec{r}) = \Phi_{\alpha} (\vec{r})[/tex]
The gradient is always perpendicular to a hypersurface of constant value of a scalar. If the allowed displacement does not change the value of [tex]\Phi_{\alpha}[/tex], then the gradient must be perpendicular to the displacement. The same argument that leads to the first cancellation of terms, necessarily implies that the first remaining term in the expansion is zero.
 

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