Is the method used to evaluate the given integral correct?

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around evaluating the definite integral $$\int_{-1}^0 |4t+2| dt$$, focusing on the correctness of two proposed methods of evaluation. The subject area includes integral calculus, particularly dealing with absolute value functions and their implications on integration.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore two methods for evaluating the integral, one using substitution and the other splitting the integral based on the behavior of the absolute value function. Questions arise regarding the treatment of negative values in the context of area under the curve and the implications of absolute values on the integral's evaluation.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing examination of the methods presented, with some participants questioning the validity of the approaches and the assumptions made regarding the absolute value. Guidance has been offered regarding the correct interpretation of the integral and the necessity of ensuring nonnegative results when dealing with absolute values.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the potential confusion between evaluating the definite integral and finding the area under the curve, as well as the importance of correctly applying the definition of absolute value in the context of integration.

chwala
Gold Member
Messages
2,829
Reaction score
425
Homework Statement
This is my own question (set by myself)..I am refreshing.

Evaluate the integral

$$\int_{-1}^0 |4t+2| dt$$
Relevant Equations
Fundamental theorem of calculus -definite integrals
Method 1,
Pretty straightforward,

$$\int_{-1}^0 |4t+2| dt$$

Let ##u=4t+2##

##du=4 dt##

on substitution,

$$\frac{1}{4}\int_{-2}^2 |u| du=\frac{1}{4}\int_{-2}^0 (-u) du+\frac{1}{4}\int_{0}^2 u du=\frac{1}{4}[2+2]=1$$

Now on method 2,

$$\int_{-1}^0 |4t+2| dt=\int_{-1}^{-0.5} |4t+2| dt+\int_{-0.5}^0 |4t+2| dt=(-0.5-0)+-0.5=|-1|=1$$

We take the absolute value when finding area under curves...

your insight welcome....this things need refreshing at all times... :wink: looks like the methods are just one and the same...
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I'm not sure what you mean by "we take the absolute value when finding area..."

The function is an absolute value. The methods are similar. How would this problem differ if there were no absolute value? A plot may help.

The u-substitution makes it intuitive where to split into 2 integrals.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: chwala and malawi_glenn
scottdave said:
I'm not sure what you mean by "we take the absolute value when finding area..."

The function is an absolute value. The methods are similar. How would this problem differ if there were no absolute value? A plot may help.

The u-substitution makes it intuitive where to split into 2 integrals.
@scottdave i was referring to:

$$\int_{-1}^0 |4t+2| dt=\int_{-1}^{-0.5} |4t+2| dt+\int_{-0.5}^0 |4t+2| dt=(-0.5-0)+-0.5=-1$$

...should the negative remain or it does not matter. This is a good question almost boggled me up trying to find the definite integral of ##\int_{-1}^{-0.5} (4t+2) dt##, that is without the absolute value. ##0!## hmmmmm can't be ...

I later realized that the graph is split into two halves with ##x=0.5## as the point dividing them... to give us, Area under curve:
##A=0.5+0.5=1## square units.

or does this follow the principle of odd and even functions where for instance for odd functions,
'##\int_{-a}^{a} f(x) dx=0##? ...really rusted in these area- i need to go through my notes!...

I think i got it, there is a difference between finding the definite integral and finding the area bound by the curve ##y=f(x)## having been given the limits say, ##x_1## and ##x_2##.
 
Last edited:
chwala said:
..should the negative remain or it does not matter.
You should not get a negative number. The graph of y = |4x + 2| is nonnegative for all real x, so any integral will also be nonnegative.

chwala said:
I later realized that the graph is split into two halves with x=0.5
You probably mean at x = -1/2.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Math100, malawi_glenn and chwala
Mark44 said:
You should not get a negative number. The graph of y = |4x + 2| is nonnegative for all real x, so any integral will also be nonnegative.

You probably mean at x = -1/2.
Yes at ##x=-0.5##. I will check my working steps again...

Did you check my method ##2##? that is in post ##1##. Let me post the steps first. A minute.

$$\int_{-1}^0 |4t+2| dt=\int_{-1}^{-0.5} |4t+2| dt+\int_{-0.5}^0 |4t+2|
dt=\left[2t^2+2t\right]_{-1}^{-0.5}+\left[2t^2+2t\right]_{-0.5}^{0}$$
....one needs to be quite clear on whether you're determining the definite integral or finding the area bound by the curve.

In our case, we are just evaluating the definite integral therefore,$$\int_{-1}^0 |4t+2| dt=\int_{-1}^{-0.5} |4t+2| dt+\int_{-0.5}^0 |4t+2|
dt=\left[2t^2+2t\right]_{-1}^{-0.5}+\left[2t^2+2t\right]_{-0.5}^{0}$$

$$ =(-0.5-0)+(0+0.5)=-0.5+0.5=0$$

if it was area bound by the curve then our solution would be,$$\int_{-1}^0 |4t+2| dt=\int_{-1}^{-0.5} |4t+2| dt+\int_{-0.5}^0 |4t+2|
dt=\left[2t^2+2t\right]_{-1}^{-0.5}+\left[2t^2+2t\right]_{-0.5}^{0}$$

$$ =(-0.5-0)+(0+0.5)=|-0.5|+0.5=1$$
 
Last edited:
chwala said:
$$\int_{-1}^0 |4t+2| dt$$
Relevant Equations: Fundamental theorem of calculus -definite integrals
You can leave this section blank if there are no relevant equations. Fundamental Thm of Calculus is really too generic to be a helpful relevant equation.
chwala said:
Now on method 2, $$\int_{-1}^0 |4t+2| dt=\int_{-1}^{-0.5} |4t+2| dt+\int_{-0.5}^0 |4t+2| dt=(-0.5-0)+-0.5=|-1|=1$$
I wouldn't use substitution (your method 1) for such a straightforward problem. I'm not saying it's wrong, just that I wouldn't go this route.

For your method 2, use the definition of absolute value to replace |4t + 2| by -4t - 2, when ##t \le -1/2##. You have a mistake in your work, so you had to "fudge" your answer by taking the absolute value.

The integral you showed in your method 2 should look like this:
$$\int_{-1}^0 |4t+2| dt=\int_{-1}^{-0.5} -4t - 2 ~dt+\int_{-0.5}^0 4t + 2 ~dt = \left . -2t^2 - 2t \right |_{-1}^{-1/2} + \left . 2t^2 + 2t \right |_{-1/2}^0$$
$$= -2/4 + 1 - 0 + 0 - (1/2 - 1) = 1$$
No fudging of the result was needed.
 
Last edited:
Mark44 said:
You can leave this section blank if there are no relevant equations. Fundamental Thm of Calculus is really too generic to be a helpful relevant equation.

I wouldn't use substitution (your method 1) for such a straightforward problem. I'm not saying it's wrong, just that I wouldn't go this route.

For your method 2, use the definition of absolute value to replace |4t + 2| by -4t - 2, when ##t \le -1/2##. You have a mistake in your work, so you had to "fudge" your answer by taking the absolute value.

The integral you showed in your method 2 should look like this:
$$\int_{-1}^0 |4t+2| dt=\int_{-1}^{-0.5} -4t - 2 ~dt+\int_{-0.5}^0 4t + 2 ~dt = \left . -2t^2 - 2t \right |_{-1}^{-1/2} + \left . 2t^2 + 2t \right |_{-1/2}^0 $$
$$= -2/4 + 1 - 0 + 0 - (1/2 - 1) = 1$$
No fudging of the result was needed.
True, i should have taken the negative of the absolute value by considering ##x=-0.5##...Noted.

On the side i think the question simply wanted us to evaluate the integral...check...
 
chwala said:
Noted but i think the question simply wanted us to evaluate the integral...check...
Right, I get that. What I'm saying is that your work in method 2 was incorrect. You got the right answer in this method only by "fudging" your result.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: SammyS and chwala

Similar threads

Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
6
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
1K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K