Is the Problem Proving x^4 + ax + b = 0 Incorrect?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the problem of proving that the polynomial equation x^4 + ax + b = 0 cannot have only real roots, where a and b are real numbers. Participants explore the implications of specific values for a and b, particularly the case when both are zero, and the conditions under which the polynomial can have real roots.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of the problem, suggesting that if a = b = 0, the equation simplifies to x^4 = 0, which has a real root (x = 0 with multiplicity 4).
  • Another participant proposes that for the polynomial to have four real roots, it must have three relative extrema, leading to the conclusion that the first derivative (4x^3 + a) can only have one real zero, thus limiting the original equation to at most two real roots.
  • A later reply acknowledges the clarification provided by the previous participant and expresses a desire for the problem to include a note that a and b cannot both equal zero to avoid confusion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the validity of the problem as stated, with some suggesting it is flawed due to the special case when a and b are both zero. The discussion remains unresolved as to whether the problem is indeed incorrect.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of specific conditions (such as the values of a and b) in determining the nature of the roots, indicating that the problem may lack necessary constraints or clarifications.

MLeszega
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Problem proving x^4 + ax + b...

So I started working on some of these http://www.math.vt.edu/people/plinnell/Vtregional/exams.pdf problems for fun. The relevant problem is #7 from year 1983.

The problem: If a and b are real, prove that x^4 +ax + b = 0 cannot have only real roots.

I worked on it for a while, but was unable to prove this. Then I thought about the case when a=b=0. Certainly zero is a real number, and substituting zero in for a and b you get: x^4 = 0. Now the only solution to this is x = 0 (with multiplicity 4), which would mean that it only has real roots.

I wanted to get other's opinions and since few of my friends like math I decided to come here and ask: Am I missing something or is the problem just wrong?
 
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Hmm..looks like a flaw in the stated problem.
 


I'll assume elementary calculus can be used. In order to have four real roots, the function y=x^4 +ax +b must have 3 relative extrema (2 min and 1 max). Therefore the first derivative must have 3 zeroes. The first derivative is 4x^3 +a, which has only 1 real zero, so the original equation can have at most 2 real roots.

Note: the only exception would be for a=0, leading to the special case originally mentioned.
 
Last edited:


Ahh, I see. That really cleared things up for me, thanks. I do wish they made some sort of side note for the problem though, saying something like 'a and b cannot both equal zero,' because then you actually can have all real solutions...
 

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