Is the signature of this matrix zero?

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The discussion centers on the signature of a symmetric matrix formed from two square matrices, M and N, where M is symmetric and N is non-singular. It is argued that the signature of the matrix cannot be zero due to the independence of rows and the properties of eigenvalues during continuous deformation. The participants explore the implications of Lagrange multipliers and the behavior of eigenvalues, concluding that the signature remains unchanged unless an eigenvalue crosses zero, which cannot occur without a zero determinant. A generalization to a more complex matrix structure is proposed, suggesting that the signature of the new matrix relates back to the signature of M, contingent on the behavior of T. The conversation emphasizes the topological aspects of matrix deformation and eigenvalue stability.
lavinia
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Given are two square matrices of the same dimension, M and N.

M is symmetric. N is non singular.

From M and N form the symmetric matrix,

M N
N* 0

Where N* is the transpose of N.

Is the signature of this matrix necessarily zero? Counterexample?
 
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My "engineer's intuition" says it is true, if you think about finding the extrema of x*Mx subject to the constraints Nx = 0, using Lagrange multipliers. The situations where this runs into trouble are when the constraints are not all independent, but that is excluded because N is non-singular.

Basically, each eigenvalue of M is turned into a pair of eigenvalues of the augmented matrix, one positive and one negative.

But my brain isn't working well enough to turn that idea into a proof right now - sorry!
 
I think a topological argument works here.

If you continuously deform such a matrix (within the constraints you mentioned), then the signature cannot change without an eigenvalue crossing 0. But that cannot happen without the determinant being zero. But such a matrix cannot have zero determinant because its rows are independent. In other words, the signature cannot change under a continuous deformation that maintains the given constraints on M and N.

Every symmetric matrix can be continuously deformed to 0 (by scaling it down to 0). And GL(n) only has two connected components, so each non-singular matrix can be deformed to I or I' (which is I with one entry flipped to -1). So it suffices to check M=0, N=I, and M=0,N=I'.
 
Pick for instance M=(0) and N=(1).

Determinant=-1
Trace=0
Eigenvalues are +1 and -1.
 
Vargo said:
I think a topological argument works here.

If you continuously deform such a matrix (within the constraints you mentioned), then the signature cannot change without an eigenvalue crossing 0. But that cannot happen without the determinant being zero. But such a matrix cannot have zero determinant because its rows are independent. In other words, the signature cannot change under a continuous deformation that maintains the given constraints on M and N.

Every symmetric matrix can be continuously deformed to 0 (by scaling it down to 0). And GL(n) only has two connected components, so each non-singular matrix can be deformed to I or I' (which is I with one entry flipped to -1). So it suffices to check M=0, N=I, and M=0,N=I'.

Very cool argument. It took me a while to get it.

I am going to try to generalize this to the matrix

M T 0
T* M N
0 N 0

where the conclusion now - I think - would be that the signature is this matrix is the signature of M. Can I just shrink T to zero?
 
Last edited:
AlephZero said:
My "engineer's intuition" says it is true, if you think about finding the extrema of x*Mx subject to the constraints Nx = 0, using Lagrange multipliers. The situations where this runs into trouble are when the constraints are not all independent, but that is excluded because N is non-singular.

Basically, each eigenvalue of M is turned into a pair of eigenvalues of the augmented matrix, one positive and one negative.

But my brain isn't working well enough to turn that idea into a proof right now - sorry!

This is the approach I have tried - more or less. I get a system of quadratic equations.
 
lavinia said:
I am going to try to generalize this to the matrix

M T 0
T* M N
0 N 0

where the conclusion now - I think - would be that the signature is this matrix is the signature of M. Can I just shrink T to zero?

If T is shrunk towards zero the the matrix becomes singular only if M is singular so your proof goes through.
 
lavinia said:
I am going to try to generalize this to the matrix

M T 0
T* M N
0 N 0

where the conclusion now - I think - would be that the signature is this matrix is the signature of M. Can I just shrink T to zero?

Lets see... The determinant of this matrix will equal (-1)^n(\det M) (\det N)^2, where n is the block size. If M is non-singular, the determinant is never zero, so no signature changes could happen by shrinking T down to zero.

If M is singular, the conclusion still sounds plausible, but I'm not sure whether the same proof could be adapted.
 
If M is diagonal then T can be shrunk to zero in the plane of non-zero eigen values.

Choose a basis of eigen vectors for the copy of M that is in the upper left corner of the matrix.
 

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