Is the Sum of Digits Always Nine?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the properties of the sum of digits of positive integers, particularly focusing on the relationship between a number and the sum of its digits in relation to the number 9. Participants explore mathematical reasoning, modular arithmetic, and historical context related to this phenomenon.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that subtracting the sum of the digits from any positive integer greater than 9 results in a multiple of 9, supported by modular arithmetic arguments.
  • Others elaborate on the mathematical proof involving congruences, showing that if a number is a multiple of 9, then the sum of its digits is also a multiple of 9.
  • A participant suggests that this property may extend to other bases, specifically questioning whether the sum of digits of numbers divisible by a-1 in base a is also divisible by a-1.
  • Some participants express interest in patterns related to the sums of digits of multiples of 9 and inquire about existing research on this topic.
  • Historical context is provided regarding the method known as 'casting out nines', which has been used for centuries as a technique for error-checking in calculations.
  • References to external resources and previous threads are made to further explore the topic and related patterns.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally find the topic interesting and engage with various mathematical perspectives. However, there is no consensus on the extension of these properties to other bases or the specific patterns in digit sums, leaving some questions unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about modular arithmetic and the properties of numbers in different bases, which may not be universally applicable without further proof or clarification.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in number theory, modular arithmetic, mathematical proofs, and historical methods of error-checking in calculations may find this discussion valuable.

e(ho0n3
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I don't know if this has been posted already, but anwho...

If you pick any positive integer greater than 9 and subtract the sum of its digits from that number, you'll end up with a multiple of 9. How do I know it's a multiple of 9? Curiously enough, the sum of the digits of a positive integer that is a multiple of 9 is a multiple of 9. Do this enough times and you'll end up with 9.

I tried this with other number systems and it seems to hold. This is the most interesting play of numbers if found to date.
 
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If you pick any positive integer greater than 9 and subtract the sum of its digits from that number, you'll end up with a multiple of 9.

Let a_n...a_1a_0 = a_0 * 10^0 + a_1 * 10^1 + ... + a_n * 10^n be a number (in base 10). Since 10 == 1 (mod 9), we have that 10^n == 1 (mod 9). Thus

a_0 * 10^0 + a_1 * 10^1 + ... + a_n * 10^n == a_0 + a_1 + ... + a_n (mod 9).

Subtracting the sum of the digits, a_0 + a_1 + ... + a_n, from both sides gives the desired result.

Curiously enough, the sum of the digits of a positive integer that is a multiple of 9 is a multiple of 9.

Suppose a_n...a_1a_0 = 9k for some integer k. Then a_0 * 10^0 + a_1 * 10^1 + ... + a_n * 10^n = 9k. Taking both sides modulo 9,

a_0 + a_1 + ... + a_n == 0 (mod 9),

as required.

That's enough mathematics for today ;)
 
If you are not familiar with congruences and modular arithmetic, consider this...

Let the number N = w + 10x + 100y + 1000z + ... (example : 574 = 4 + 7*10 + 5*100 )
Its digits are w, x, y, z, ... So the sum of the digits is w + x + y + z + ... = S, say.

So, N - S = D = (w-w) + (10x-x) + (100y-y) + (1000z -z) + ... = 9x + 99y + 999z + ... = 9 (x + 11y + 111z + ...)

So, N - S is a multiple of 9.


Now for the second part...

Consider again, N = w + 10x + 100y + 1000z + ...
We want to prove that, if the sum of its digits, S is divisible by 9, then so is the number, N, and conversely.

If S is divisible by 9, then S = 9p. Now to this, add the number D, calculated above. S + D = 9p + D. But we saw previously that D itself is a multiple of 9, so D = 9q. Hence, S + D = 9p + 9q = 9(p+q) = 9r, say. But then, S + D is nothing but N. So N = 9r, which is what we wnted to prove.

The converse is proved by starting with N = 9r and subtracting D to yield S = 9(r-q) = 9p, say.
QED
 
Nice proof, won't the same thing work for any base a with a-1 which is always an additive generator of the residue system?

The sum of digits of any number divisible by a-1 in base a is also divisible by a-1. ?

I'm too lazy to try to crank out the proof or even find a counter to it.

My question is did you gentlemen ever see the pattern of first appearance of multiples of nine when you sum the digits of multiples of nine in order?

It is quite interesting. "[PLAIN Digits.xls"]http://agapeflight.net/Summing Digits.xls[/URL]


Anyone know of any research related to that pattern? It appears that the distribution of digit sums would be roughly lognormal after some first appearance. I did find some stuff on research into this through the wiki on Digit Sums. Thanks.
 
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I agree it’s very interesting. If you’d like to see some more information on this check out a previously thread called “Dissected Number Law”. Numbers 9 and 11 are key in this sort of arithmetic phenomena.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=248279
 
agapeflight said:
It is quite interesting. "[PLAIN Digits.xls"]http://agapeflight.net/Summing Digits.xls[/URL]Anyone know of any research related to that pattern?

I'm researching that pattern - but the creator of the above link (you?) needs to take the sum of digits to completion ie

Every total should have been reduced to one root digit 9
e.g 18 then add 1+ 8 = 9
27 then add 2 + 7 = 9

Anyway it is based on mod 9

This link may be helpful:
http://www.applet-magic.com/Digitsum00.htm
 
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It is called 'casting out nines', and it has been used for centuries by accountants, mathemeticians, and scribes as a simple 'sanity-check' on results.

Before pocket calculators were readily available, and long- column addition and subtraction were routinely done by hand, this method was used to spot check for mistakes. Ancient scribes copying manuscripts by hand would likewise assign numeric values to specific letters, add them, and do spot-checks to keep hand-copied manuscripts free of errors as well.

The earliest use of the technique I have found referenced was by Hippolytos of Rome, a bishop from the early 3rd century AD.
 
JazzFusion said:
It is called 'casting out nines'

For something really neat, go to http://mensanator.com/"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
THAT is classic! Thanks for sharing it!
 

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