Why does the 'Number 9 Phenomenon' always work in integer systems?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the 'Number 9 Phenomenon' in integer systems, specifically exploring why a certain digit manipulation consistently results in the number 9. Participants examine the mathematical principles behind this phenomenon, including its relation to base systems and divisibility rules.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a method involving taking any number greater than 9, summing its digits, subtracting that sum from the original number, and simplifying to a single digit, which always results in 9.
  • Another participant explains that the phenomenon is related to divisibility by 9 in base 10, noting that this property extends to other bases where it applies to b-1.
  • Some participants discuss the implications of the base system used, suggesting that the phenomenon is not a natural anomaly but rather a consequence of the mathematical system in use.
  • A participant presents a breakdown of a four-digit number to demonstrate that the result of subtracting the sum of its digits from the number itself is divisible by 9.
  • One participant asserts that this property holds for any integer with more than one digit, indicating a broader applicability of the phenomenon.
  • Another participant mentions a property of the largest integer in various base systems, suggesting a connection to the 'magic' of being the largest integer in those systems.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the phenomenon, with some agreeing on the mathematical principles involved while others question whether it is a natural occurrence or a result of the base system. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader implications of these observations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the conclusions depend on the definitions of the base systems and the properties of numbers within those systems. There are also unresolved aspects regarding the proof of certain claims made during the discussion.

MrModesty
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I have seen this number "trick" throughout the years and have never been able to figure out the mechanism. I'm sure most of you are familiar with it, and probably have a simple solution. Here it is for those who are not aware:

take any number greater than 9

add up all of the digits of this number

subtract the sum from the original number

simplify this number by adding the digits until you get down to a single digit...it will ALWAYS be 9

example:

384773

3+8+4+7+7+3 = 32

384773-32 = 384741

3+8+4+7+4+1 = 27

2+7 = 9

Anyone know what's going on here?
 
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MrModesty said:
Anyone know what's going on here?

10 = 9*1 + 1, so x + 10 is divisible by 9 exactly when x + 1 is divisible by 9. This let's you move the tens place to the ones place:

37 = 27 + 10 -> 27 + 1 = 18 + 10 -> 18 + 1 = 9 + 10 -> 10 = 0 + 10 -> 1

so 37 is not divisible by 9 (it leaves a remainder of 1). In fact, this let's you move the hundreds place down to the 1s place in the same way, since 100 = 9*11 + 1. Etc.

For base b, this trick works for divisibility by b-1. Since you're using base 10, it works for 9. If you use hexadecimal, it works for divisibility by 15.
 
CRGreathouse said:
10 = 9*1 + 1, so x + 10 is divisible by 9 exactly when x + 1 is divisible by 9. This let's you move the tens place to the ones place:

37 = 27 + 10 -> 27 + 1 = 18 + 10 -> 18 + 1 = 9 + 10 -> 10 = 0 + 10 -> 1

so 37 is not divisible by 9 (it leaves a remainder of 1). In fact, this let's you move the hundreds place down to the 1s place in the same way, since 100 = 9*11 + 1. Etc.

For base b, this trick works for divisibility by b-1. Since you're using base 10, it works for 9. If you use hexadecimal, it works for divisibility by 15.

So it's the system of mathematics that we're using? Not a naturally occurring anomaly?
 
MrModesty said:
So it's the system of mathematics that we're using? Not a naturally occurring anomaly?

Anything that has to do with the decimal digits of a number will naturally need to use the fact that the base is 10. :cool:
 
You could also look at it this way:
1) Assume you have a 4 digit number ABCD
2) This can be represented by 1000A + 100B + 10C + D
3) If you add the digits together, you get A + B + C + D
4) Subtract the result of 3) from the result of 2). You get: (1000A + 100B + 10C + D) - (A + B + C + D) = 999A + 99B + 9C
5) Which is divisible by 9: 9 x (99A + 9B + C)
6) Any number evenly divisible by 9 has the following property: add all of the digits of the number to get a new number, continue this until you only have one digit, the result is always 9

(Now the job is to prove #6)


You can easily see that this will work for any integer with 'n' digits such that n > 1
 
This is a property of the largest intger for any base number system . 1 in binary, 2 in base 3, 7 in base 8, and F in hexadecimal, all share the "magic" that comes with being the largest integer.
 

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