Is the supremum of [-r,r] always equal to r or -r?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter AKBAR
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Confused Supremum
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the supremum of the function values over the interval [-r, r], particularly in the context of different functions f. Participants explore how the supremum can vary based on the nature of the function and the value of r, with a focus on understanding the conditions under which the supremum is equal to r or -r.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that for 0 < r < 1, the supremum of f over [-r, r] is f(r), questioning a text that claims it is f(-r).
  • Another participant clarifies that the supremum being f(r) is only true if f is increasing on the interval [-r, r], indicating that the function's behavior is crucial.
  • A further explanation is provided that the supremum refers to the values of f, not the x values, highlighting the need to consider the specific function being analyzed.
  • Examples are given with different functions: for f(x) = x, the supremum is f(r); for f(x) = -x, the supremum is at -r; and for f(x) = -x², the supremum occurs at f(0).
  • A participant later introduces a specific function f(x) = (n-1)! / (1+x)ⁿ and calculates the supremum over the interval, providing a concrete example related to the radius of convergence of a Taylor expansion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the supremum being equal to r or -r, as it depends on the specific function f being discussed. Multiple competing views remain regarding the conditions under which each case applies.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the importance of the function's characteristics and the specific interval in determining the supremum, with various assumptions and conditions influencing the outcomes.

AKBAR
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Let 0 < r < 1. Then [tex]\sup_{x\in[-r,r]}f(x)=f(r)}[/tex], right? However, the text I'm reading says it's [tex]f(-r)[/tex]. How could this be? For example, say r = 0.5, then the least upper bound of [-0.5, 0.5] is 0.5, or r, right? I don't see how it could be -r. Thanks for any help.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Hi AKBAR! :smile:
AKBAR said:
Let 0 < r < 1. Then [tex]\sup_{x\in[-r,r]}f(x)=f(r)}[/tex], right?

No.

That will be true if f is increasing in [-r,r], but not in most other cases.

What is f? What is the relevance of 0 < r < 1? What is the context? :confused:
 
AKBAR said:
Let 0 < r < 1. Then [tex]\sup_{x\in[-r,r]}f(x)=f(r)}[/tex], right? However, the text I'm reading says it's [tex]f(-r)[/tex]. How could this be? For example, say r = 0.5, then the least upper bound of [-0.5, 0.5] is 0.5, or r, right? I don't see how it could be -r. Thanks for any help.
You are taking the supremum ("least upper bound") of the values of f not x!

For example, if f(x)= x, then f(-r)= -r, f(r)= r and f takes on all values between -r and r. In that case the sup of f(x) on the interval (not the sup of the interval itself) is f(r).

But if f(x)= -x, then f(-r)= r, f(r)= -r and now the supremum occurs at -r: f(-r) is the largest value (in fact it is the maximum value).

And it can get more complicated than that. If f(x)= -x2, then f(-r)= f(r)= -r2< 0. The maximum (and so sup) occurs in the middle of the interval. The sup is f(0)= 0.
 
Ahhhh...that really clears things up. Thank you guys.

The function in question was [tex]f(x)=\frac{(n-1)!}{(1+x)^n}[/tex]. So [tex]\sup_{-r\leq x\leq r}\frac{(n-1)!}{(1+x)^n}=\frac{(n-1)!}{(1-r)^n}[/tex] The r comes from the radius of convergence of a Taylor expansion (I'm reading about where T(x) = f(x) ).

Thanks again for the help.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K