Is There a Binomial Formula for Circles, Spheres, and Tori?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of establishing a binomial-like formula for calculating the areas of geometric shapes such as circles, spheres, and tori. Participants explore the relationship between algebraic expressions and geometric interpretations in various dimensions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant introduces the concept of binomial formulas, specifically referencing the area of squares and cubes, and questions if similar formulas exist for circles and higher-dimensional shapes.
  • Another participant suggests that there are expressions analogous to binomial formulas for circles and provides a lemma to support this idea.
  • A detailed exploration is presented, proposing that the areas of two circles can be related through their radii, leading to a formula that incorporates the areas of the circles and a term involving their radii.
  • The proposed formula for the area of a circle based on the radii of two other circles is expressed as: A_c = A_a + A_b + (ab√π)/(a+b)C_c, where A_a and A_b are the areas of the individual circles.
  • There is a request for clarification on the geometric interpretation of the proposed formula and an inquiry into whether similar relationships can be established for spheres and tori.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of agreement on the existence of a binomial-like relationship for circles, but the discussion remains unresolved regarding the application of this concept to spheres and tori. Multiple interpretations and approaches are presented without consensus.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves complex geometric relationships and relies on specific assumptions about the mapping of algebraic operations to geometric constructs. The limitations of the proposed formulas and their applicability to higher dimensions are not fully resolved.

JonnyMaddox
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Hey JO,

You all know the binomic formulas I guess. Let's look at the first:
(a+b)^2=a^2+2ab+b^2
Now this can be interpretet as the area of a square with the sides (a+b). And that means the area of the square is decomposed into the components a^2,2ab and b^2. And this can also be done for a cube in three dimensions with (a+b)^3 and so on. My question is now if there is a similar formula for the area of a circle? Or in higher dimensions for a sphere or torus ?
 
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Not completetly trivial, but yes, there are such expressions. This lemma tells (part of) the story
 
Another use of the formula:
350px-Pythagoras_proof.svg.png

What can you prove from that figure and your formula?
 
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JonnyMaddox said:
Hey JO,
My question is now if there is a similar formula for the area of a circle? Or in higher dimensions for a sphere or torus ?

Oh, this is a fascinating question we might be able to reason our way through. Let's start off with what we know. In your mapping of the algebraic binomial distribution to generalized Euclidian space, it's important to understand that the algebraic operator addition corresponds to the finite extension of a segment (one of Euclid's postulates) and that the product is delimitation of a rectangle on a Euclidian plane. The construction of a circle (a second Euclidian postulate) is fundamentally a different process whereby an arc is subtended. Now, is it possible to map a length to an arc? Yes, by way of a radius/diameter which can also be mapped to a length. And both are extensible, but what of the product? Let's try using the radii to find a relationship... Yes! Here's an analog to the relationship between the area of a rectangle subdivided:

If you have two circles ## \{A, B\} ## of radii ## \{a \sqrt{\pi}, b \sqrt{\pi} \} ## then their areas are ## \{ a^2 \pi^2, b^2 \pi^2 \}## respectively. Now, create a circle ## C ## of the radius ## (a + b) \sqrt{\pi} ##. It's area will be ## (a^2 + 2ab + b^ 2) \pi^2 ## which can be rewritten ## a^2 \pi^2 + 2ab \pi^2 + b^ 2 \pi^2 ##. Then it becomes evident that the sum of the areas of the first two circles plus this middle term are equal in area to the area of the third circle. What about the relation between the two terms? It look like the circumference but isn't.

The circumference is ## 2\pi (a + b)\sqrt{\pi} ## where as our center term is ## 2\pi (a\cdot b) \pi ##. So, our conversion factor (to turn what we have into the circumference of C) is ## \frac{ab\sqrt{\pi}}{a+b} ##.

So, from what I can tell the analog with circles does have a geometric interpretation, but it's nowhere as elegant.

## A_c = A_a + A_b + \frac{ab\sqrt{\pi}}{a+b}C_c \forall a, b \in ℝ##.

Is this what you're looking for?
 
aikismos said:
Oh, this is a fascinating question we might be able to reason our way through. Let's start off with what we know. In your mapping of the algebraic binomial distribution to generalized Euclidian space, it's important to understand that the algebraic operator addition corresponds to the finite extension of a segment (one of Euclid's postulates) and that the product is delimitation of a rectangle on a Euclidian plane. The construction of a circle (a second Euclidian postulate) is fundamentally a different process whereby an arc is subtended. Now, is it possible to map a length to an arc? Yes, by way of a radius/diameter which can also be mapped to a length. And both are extensible, but what of the product? Let's try using the radii to find a relationship... Yes! Here's an analog to the relationship between the area of a rectangle subdivided:

If you have two circles ## \{A, B\} ## of radii ## \{a \sqrt{\pi}, b \sqrt{\pi} \} ## then their areas are ## \{ a^2 \pi^2, b^2 \pi^2 \}## respectively. Now, create a circle ## C ## of the radius ## (a + b) \sqrt{\pi} ##. It's area will be ## (a^2 + 2ab + b^ 2) \pi^2 ## which can be rewritten ## a^2 \pi^2 + 2ab \pi^2 + b^ 2 \pi^2 ##. Then it becomes evident that the sum of the areas of the first two circles plus this middle term are equal in area to the area of the third circle. What about the relation between the two terms? It look like the circumference but isn't.

The circumference is ## 2\pi (a + b)\sqrt{\pi} ## where as our center term is ## 2\pi (a\cdot b) \pi ##. So, our conversion factor (to turn what we have into the circumference of C) is ## \frac{ab\sqrt{\pi}}{a+b} ##.

So, from what I can tell the analog with circles does have a geometric interpretation, but it's nowhere as elegant.

## A_c = A_a + A_b + \frac{ab\sqrt{\pi}}{a+b}C_c \forall a, b \in ℝ##.

Is this what you're looking for?

Ok thank you, that sounds nice. I'm trying to understand it. So what is the geometric interpretation? But next, what about spheres and tori? I think if I fully understood this I could put it up on Wikipedia as a generalisation of the binomic formula.
 

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