Is There a Common Pattern in Einstein Crosses?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of Einstein crosses, particularly focusing on the patterns observed in these gravitational lensing events. Participants explore the implications of symmetry, the role of lens shapes, and the underlying physics that may contribute to the formation of these patterns. The conversation includes theoretical considerations and speculative reasoning regarding the conditions that lead to the observed configurations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes an unusual pattern in Einstein crosses, highlighting the symmetry of pairs of background objects and expressing skepticism about the rarity of such configurations.
  • Another participant references Fermat’s principle, suggesting that the four cross points may represent maximum, minimum, and two inflection points, although they express uncertainty about their qualifications to elaborate further.
  • A question is raised regarding what determines the orientation of the cross, with an expectation of a ring formation instead.
  • One participant proposes that an elliptic lens with two foci could explain the formation of two points in the cross, questioning what could account for the other two points and suggesting a possible relationship with another dual black hole elliptical galaxy.
  • Another participant explains that a spherically symmetric lens can produce two points from light passing over and under it, while a non-symmetric lens can lead to a cross pattern, although they express uncertainty about the necessity of two interacting elongated sources.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms behind the formation of Einstein crosses, with some proposing specific models while others raise questions about the assumptions and conditions involved. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact factors that influence the observed patterns.

Contextual Notes

Some participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding or qualifications, and there are unresolved questions about the mathematical modeling required to fully explain the phenomena discussed.

Buckethead
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TL;DR
common pattern emerges from Einstein Cross
This is probably just a coincidence, but I happened to notice while looking at Einstein crosses an unusual pattern common to these four images. I was looking for more but it turns out there may not be as many crosses as I originally thought. Must be rare. The pattern is that of the 4 background objects (quasar, supernova) the line connecting two of them cross the center, while the line connecting the other two are offset from the center. Also, I'm fascinated by the symmetry of the two pairs in the images. The first observation is likely a fluke but the symmetry is what kind of gets me. For what must be an obviously distorted lens, it's a bit strange that there would be not only symmetry of one pair, but of two pair! In other words, it would be much more likely to see a two object image around the center (not even pairs, but just in two random locations) than to see two perfectly symmetrical pairs. Comments?
 

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Fermat’s principle says stationary angles as for time to arrive come true. I am not qualified to tell more but I suppose four cross points represent maximum, minimum and two inflection points.
 
anuttarasammyak said:
Fermat’s principle says stationary angles as for time to arrive come true. I am not qualified to tell more but I suppose four cross points represent maximum, minimum and two inflection points.
What selects the orientation of the cross? I might have expected a ring (??).
 
sophiecentaur said:
What selects the orientation of the cross? I might have expected a ring (??).
The Wikipedia page on Einstein crosses notes that it's due to the highly elongated shape of the galaxy doing the lensing.
 
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Good answer!
 
An elliptic lens has two foci. Photons from one distant galaxy passing through the gravitational lens of two merging galaxies forming an ellipse with a super-massive black hole at each focus could produce two of the points of the cross. What could produce the other two? Another dual black hole elliptical galaxy with a major axis perpendicular to the first? Do subsequent observations of an Einstein Cross show any motion of the foci as the galaxies merge?
 
Psnarf said:
An elliptic lens has two foci. Photons from one distant galaxy passing through the gravitational lens of two merging galaxies forming an ellipse with a super-massive black hole at each focus could produce two of the points of the cross.
You get two points from a spherically symmetric lens. Essentially this comes from light passing "over" and "under" the lens. They will smear into a ring as the source passes behind the lens. This behaviour has to happen because orbits about a spherically symmetric mass must lie in a plane, and it must be the plane defined by the source, the lens, and the observer. This plane is only non-unique when all three are colinear.

If the lens is non-symmetric, apparently you can get a cross pattern. I don't know any way to deduce this without numerical modelling, but I can't see why two interacting elongated sources would be necessary.
 
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