Is there a constant that is not a constant?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical constant "e," specifically questioning whether it can be considered a true constant given its definition as a limit. Participants explore the implications of this definition and the nature of constants in mathematics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether "e" is a constant since it is defined as a limit, suggesting that the concept of infinity implies variability.
  • Others argue that a constant, by definition, always has the same value, and that the value of "e" does not change despite being defined through a limit.
  • A participant notes that while the value of "e" can be approximated, it remains a constant value and does not vary.
  • Some contributions emphasize that the process of approaching a limit does not imply that the value itself is changing.
  • One participant provides numerical examples to illustrate how the sequence converges to "e," reinforcing the idea that it approaches a specific constant value as n increases.
  • Another participant discusses the nature of constants in general, using the example of the number two to illustrate that constants have exact values.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus among participants. Some maintain that "e" is not a true constant due to its definition involving limits, while others firmly assert that "e" is indeed a constant value.

Contextual Notes

Participants express differing interpretations of the definition of limits and constants, leading to unresolved questions about the nature of "e." The discussion includes various mathematical perspectives and examples that highlight the complexity of the topic.

Shahid Manzar
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I was wondering why is there a constant that isn't really a constant in mathematics?

I am talking about "e", as in exponent e which is the base of the natural logarithm. By definition e = lim (1 + 1/n)^n as n approaches infinity, but doesn't this make e a non-constant since infinity always changes? In fact we know that value of e varies between 2.70 to 2.80 (P. 248 Calculus 5th edition, Stewart)
Also if value of e varies then how does a calculator pick a given value for e to solve natural log problems and what is the logic for choosing that particular value for e.

Thank you for the help!
 
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Shahid Manzar said:
I was wondering why is there a constant that isn't really a constant in mathematics?
There isn't.
A constant always has the same value.
Shahid Manzar said:
I am talking about "e", as in exponent e which is the base of the natural logarithm. By definition e = lim (1 + 1/n)^n as n approaches infinity, but doesn't this make e a non-constant since infinity always changes?
Infinity is not "always changing." The fact that e is defined as a limit has nothing to do with its value.
Shahid Manzar said:
In fact we know that value of e varies between 2.70 to 2.80 (P. 248 Calculus 5th edition, Stewart)
No, you are mistaken. e doesn't vary. Its value is somewhere between those two numbers, but that doesn't mean that its value is changing.
Shahid Manzar said:
Also if value of e varies then how does a calculator pick a given value for e to solve natural log problems and what is the logic for choosing that particular value for e.
A calculator uses an approximation of e. Different calculators might use different approximations, but that doesn't mean the e's value is changing.
 
According to this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_(mathematical_constant)

the value of e has been calculated to 1 trillion (1012) decimal places. :eek:

Unlike similar calculations for the value of π, the calculation of the number e gets far less attention in the press. :oops:
 
Shahid Manzar said:
I was wondering why is there a constant that isn't really a constant in mathematics?

I am talking about "e", as in exponent e which is the base of the natural logarithm. By definition e = lim (1 + 1/n)^n as n approaches infinity, but doesn't this make e a non-constant since infinity always changes? In fact we know that value of e varies between 2.70 to 2.80 (P. 248 Calculus 5th edition, Stewart)
Also if value of e varies then how does a calculator pick a given value for e to solve natural log problems and what is the logic for choosing that particular value for e.

Thank you for the help!

Just because the value of S_n=(1+1/n)^n as n increases keeps changing, doesn't mean that it won't converge to a value at infinity.

S_1=2S_2=2.25S_3\approx 2.37S_4\approx 2.44
S_{10}\approx 2.59
S_{100}\approx 2.705
S_{1000}\approx 2.717
S_{10^6}\approx 2.71828

Notice as n gets larger, the value of Sn changes much more slowly. As n approaches infinity, Sn will approach a certain constant value which is irrational and we give this constant the symbol e\approx 2.7182818284590...

This is equivalent to, for example,

\lim_{n\to \infty}\frac{n+1}{n}=1
Even though we have

S_n=\frac{n+1}{n}

S_1=2S_2=1.5S_3=1.33S_{10}=1.1S_{100}=1.01

We will find that S_{\infty}=1
 
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A constant is a value which is what it is.
The degree to which we can be accurate about it can be improved, but this does change the value.
A simple example , take the number two.
There is is no such thing as more or less 'two', it has an exact numerical value.
Two cats sleeping on my couch are not approximately two cats, they are exactly and precisely two cats,
not a range of possible cat quantities somewhere between 1.9 and 2.1 cats.
 
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Two cats on a couch equals two more cats than is needed.
 
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Shahid Manzar said:
but doesn't this make e a non-constant since infinity always changes?

Some of the words involved in the mathematical definition of "limit" suggest a process that takes place in time or takes place in steps. However, if you examine the precise wording of the definition of "limit" (the so-called "epsilon-delta" definition), there is no mention of something being done in steps or progressing as time passes. Illustrating limits by showing a computation done in steps is merely an intuitive way to present them. It's rather surprising how the mathematical definition of limit expresses an idea that is intuitively associated with doing a calculation in steps without mentioning anything about steps or a process taking place in time.
 
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Shahid Manzar said:
I was wondering why is there a constant that isn't really a constant in mathematics?

I am talking about "e", as in exponent e which is the base of the natural logarithm. By definition e = lim (1 + 1/n)^n as n approaches infinity, but doesn't this make e a non-constant since infinity always changes? In fact we know that value of e varies between 2.70 to 2.80 (P. 248 Calculus 5th edition, Stewart)
Also if value of e varies then how does a calculator pick a given value for e to solve natural log problems and what is the logic for choosing that particular value for e.

Thank you for the help!
The base of the natural logarithm, e, DOES NOT VARY. e is a constant; e is a constant value. When it is written with digits, the value shown is an approximation only, because e is an irrational number.
 

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