B Is there a forum where people can share and discuss features on Mars?

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The discussion centers around the search for potential fossils in Mars images and the desire for a forum where enthusiasts can share and analyze these features. Participants express skepticism about the likelihood of finding fossils, emphasizing that no reputable scientists support the idea that large life forms existed on Mars. The conversation highlights the fun of exploring Mars images, comparing it to cloud watching, while acknowledging that most findings are likely just rocks. There is a call for expert analysis to validate or debunk claims about intriguing features in the images. Overall, the thread reflects a mix of curiosity and skepticism regarding the search for signs of life on Mars.
  • #51
russ_watters said:
"go and investigate an interesting rock"
That includes Point 7 "Search for geological clues to the environmental conditions that existed when liquid water was present. Assess whether those environments were conducive to life." to which examples of fossilised life forms would contribute pretty good evidence. So it's in the brief but they were not obsessed with the possibility of anything as direct as that.
That's pretty reasonable use of the money they spent.
 
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  • #52
In case anyone is interested, I've spotted a bunch of (I think) intriguing objects. Here are a few of them.
90-4-outline.JPG


90-2-outline.JPG


Navigation Camera Sol 90. https://mars.nasa.gov/mer/gallery/all/2/n/090/2N134357490EFF2600P1846R0M1.HTML

76-outline.JPG


75-outline.JPG
From Navigation Camera Sol 76
https://mars.nasa.gov/mer/gallery/all/2/n/075/2N133028174EFF2200P1827R0M1.JPG

1830.png


Navigation Camera Sol 1830
https://mars.nasa.gov/mer/gallery/all/2/n/1830/2N288828136EFFB000P0625L0M1.JPG

1836-outline.JPG


Navigation Camera Sol 1837
https://mars.nasa.gov/mer/gallery/all/2/n/1836/2N289363525EFFB0A1P1985L0M2.JPG

65-outline.JPG


Navigation Camera Sol 65
https://mars.nasa.gov/mer/gallery/all/2/n/065/2N132143812EFF1600P1835L0M1.JPG

77-outline.JPG


Navigation Camera Sol 77
https://mars.nasa.gov/mer/gallery/all/2/n/077/2N133199118EFF2224P1845L0M1.JPG

87-outline.png


Navigation Camera Sol 87
https://mars.nasa.gov/mer/gallery/all/2/n/087/2N134089197EFF22FKP1883R0M1.JPG
 
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  • #53
There has been a pretty groundbreaking discovery that seems relevant.

Reinterpretation of weak basin magnetizations on Mars
Our results demonstrate that the martian dynamo was active 4.5 and 3.7 Ga ago. The existence of a dynamo field before and after the large basins Hellas, Utopia, Isidis, and Argyre requires an explanation for the general absence of magnetic fields over those basins. The impact demagnetization hypothesis is based on the argument that magnetization is absent within, but present around, the basin. Although this is true, unexplained observations worth noting are as follows: (i) Large tracts of Noachian crust surrounding the basins Hellas and Argyre are also unmagnetized or very weakly magnetized (fig. S7). Shock demagnetization can affect the basin exterior (27) but fails to explain the heterogeneity of magnetization around the basin or the extensive Noachian aged areas in the southern hemisphere with similarly weak or no magnetization. (ii) Short-wavelength signatures may be present in the interior of the basins (fig. S7) (16, 17), although lower-altitude tracks or surface measurements are necessary to confirm this.
Can the absence of magnetic field signatures over the basins be explained if a dynamo was operating during basin formation? At least two possibilities exist: (i) The giant impacts excavated large fractions of the crust, possibly removing material capable of carrying strong magnetizations. For crater diameters, D, up to ~500 km, the excavation depth, d, is ~0.1D, i.e., up to 50 km (37). Transient crater diameter estimates for Argyre, Isidis, and Hellas range from 750 to 1400 km (38). Although the d/D ratio for such large basins is uncertain, the depths would exceed 50 km, effectively penetrating and removing magnetized crust. The observations of very weak fields over the BB, cf. the surrounding southern highlands, suggest that this is plausible. Weak, small-scale signals may exist within the Argyre, Isidis, Hellas, and Utopia basins but require more lower-altitude observations for definitive identification. Material excavation, with only weak or small-scale subsequent magnetization, would produce a magnetic field signature at MGS and MAVEN altitudes barely distinguishable from basin-localized demagnetization. (ii) We also cannot exclude a fortuitous scenario in which a dynamo field at the time of basin formation was substantially weakened or intermittent, as a result of a reversing dynamo field (39). (iii) Alternatively, the dynamo was inactive during the time of basin formation, for example, because of inherently changing dynamo processes (i.e., from a thermally to a compositionally driven dynamo).
Implications of a dynamo 4.5 and 3.7 Ga ago
Evidence for a dynamo both ~4.5 and ~3.7 Ga ago has major implications for Mars’ evolution. Assuming a thermo-chemically driven magnetic dynamo, Mars must have sustained sufficiently vigorous core convection at its very earliest times and at the time of LP flow emplacement. Furthermore, the observations at LP suggest that a substantial fraction of the magnetization is carried in a thin, shallow magnetized unit. The resulting magnetizations are consistent with magnetization of pyroclastic flows in a 3.7-Ga old surface field with a strength similar to that of Earth’s present field. Excavation during large impacts may have played a key role in establishing a heterogeneous distribution of magnetic carriers in the martian crust, particularly removing magnetic minerals from the interior of major basins. This scenario allows a dynamo to plausibly persist from 4.5 to 3.7 Ga ago, thereby opening the possibility for a range of new magnetization processes to affect the martian surface, including depositional and crystallization remanence. For example, morphological evidence for water in the form of valley networks at the surface of Mars is dated between the Noachian and the Early Hesperian (3), before and overlapping with the timing of formation of LP and hence the dynamo. Water circulating in the martian crust in the presence of a field could have resulted in hydrothermal alteration facilitating magnetization or remagnetization of magnetic minerals (40).
Furthermore, the results link to current and planned missions’ e.g., the interior structure is a primary goal of the InSight mission currently operating on the martian surface (41). The dynamo timing results presented here provide a major step forward in understanding Mars’ thermal evolution, especially when combined with existing constraints on heat flow, mantle temperature, interior composition, and physical models of structure of the martian core. Also, if a global magnetic field protects the atmosphere from solar wind energetic particles, a prolonged dynamo would delay the effects of some of the atmospheric removal processes and hence have implications for martian atmospheric loss rates (42). This is important for addressing one of the main MAVEN goals of atmospheric escape rates through time (42). The collection of martian samples and their return to the Earth will finally be underway with sample collection by the Mars 2020 rover to be launched next year. An extended dynamo, consistent with the new results here, is of key importance for the Jezero landing site selected for Mars 2020, because units that could be sampled might have formed at a time of an active dynamo field (43). Future laboratory investigation of return samples will be the next major step in Mars exploration and, if magnetized, for planetary paleomagnetism.

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/18/eaba0513/tab-article-info

It's hard for me to tell what the full implications are. But it seems that the previous evidence we had for the disappearance of a magnetic field on Mars might have been mistaken. Most arguments why complex life is unlikely to have developed on Mars are based on that evidence. I guess there might be a significantly new story to piece together, in terms of the history of Mars and its past habitability? Or does this discovery leave the previous views mostly unchanged?
 
  • #54
Since we (including the OP) agree that this thread is not about fossils, but about things on Mars that simply look tantalizingly unrocklike, maybe we could set the tone of it by changing the thread title to "The Mars Pareidolia Thread" or some such.
 
  • #55
I think what I intended is more along the lines of, "How can we analyze Mars rover images for signs of life? Or "Is it possible to...?" Or "What methods do scientists use to determine whether a rock on Mars could be a macroscopic fossil?"
 
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  • #56
I have been impressed with the fact that Mars really does have an "unworldly" look to it. I think this must be related to the fact that the air is so thin it can only carry fine dust particles - even when blowing at high speed. The erosion produced by this "dust-blasting", especially on layered sedimentary rock, teases out fine scale features to a degree we are not used to seeing. Lower gravity, non-earth normal turbulent flow regime at boundary, etc.. I would very much like to know more. Not to change the topic, but any space suit will need to be pretty tough to provide explorers with adequate protection.
 
  • #57
Jarvis323 said:
I think what I intended is more along the lines of, "How can we analyze Mars rover images for signs of life? Or "Is it possible to...?" Or "What methods do scientists use to determine whether a rock on Mars could be a macroscopic fossil?"
I had hoped that the thread would head in that direction and tried to steer it there, but it seems to keep coming back to seeing a bunny-rabbit in the clouds. While superficially it may seem similar, "wandering around looking for interesting rocks to investigate" means something very different to a trained geologist than to a layperson. I encourage you to read up on the actual methods and tools the scientists/rovers are using for that investigation, including links provided in this thread and your own additional research.

Otherwise, this thread is drifting aimlessly and hasn't shown signs of becoming productive, so it is now locked.
 
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