Is There a Maximum Distance Limit in Our Universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of maximum distance limits in the universe, particularly in relation to the Planck length and its implications for theoretical physics. Participants explore whether there exists a maximum theoretical distance, drawing on concepts of minimum measurable lengths and the significance of the Planck length.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the Planck length sets a theoretical limit on minimum possible distance, questioning if this implies a maximum distance as the inverse of the Planck length.
  • Others argue that the inverse of the Planck length does not represent a distance, as it has units of inverse meters.
  • One participant cites Wikipedia to challenge the significance of the Planck length, stating there is no proven physical significance associated with it.
  • Another participant suggests that the inverse Planck length is much larger than the observable universe, raising doubts about its fundamental significance.
  • Some participants discuss the relationship between curvature and minimal detectable area, suggesting that nature may have intrinsic scales related to curvature and energy density.
  • A participant introduces the Trans-Planckian problem, explaining that if a photon with a wavelength equal to the Planck length is received, it implies a contradiction regarding the existence of distances smaller than the Planck length.
  • One participant summarizes that distances less than the Planck length cannot exist within the observed framework of spacetime and clarifies the interpretation of the inverse of the Planck length.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the significance of the Planck length and its implications for maximum distance limits. The discussion remains unresolved, with differing interpretations of the concepts presented.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about the Planck length and its implications, as well as the dependence on definitions of distance and curvature. The discussion also highlights unresolved issues related to quantum gravity and the Trans-Planckian problem.

vyas22
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Hello all,

If Planck length (1.61619926 × 10(-35 )meters) places a theoretical limit on minimum possible distance does it also imply that we have a maximum theoretical limit on measurable length as inverse of Planck length (1/Planck Length)..

does there any such limit on the maximum theoretical distance exist for our Universe?

Thank you for your inputs ..
 
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well, 1/planck length has units (1/meter) not (meter), so it isn't a distance at all.
 
vyas22 said:
Hello all,

If Planck length (1.61619926 × 10(-35 )meters) places a theoretical limit on minimum possible distance ...

Not true. To quote Wikipedia
There is currently no proven physical significance of the Planck length
 
gmax137 said:
well, 1/planck length has units (1/meter) not (meter), so it isn't a distance at all.

√ Agreed!

@ Phinds - Wikipedia also states 'Profound significance of Planck length in theoretical physics' :)

thank you both for responding ..
 
vyas22 said:
√ Agreed!

@ Phinds - Wikipedia also states 'Profound significance of Planck length in theoretical physics' :)

thank you both for responding ..

Yes but "profound significance" does NOT imply that it represents the smallest unit of length.
 
An inverse Planck length would be several orders of magnitude larger than the observable universe. It is unclear [for obvious reasons] if it has any fundamental significance. The Planck length is a somewhat contrived unit, as already noted. It is unclear if it has any fundamental significance. It is probably more of a convenient bookkeeping tool.
 
Chronos said:
An inverse Planck length would be several orders of magnitude larger than the observable universe.

Re-read post #2. This is utterly incorrect.
 
Curvature is often measured as inverse area.

A smallest length (if nature had one) would suggest a minimal detectable area, and thus an upper bound on curvature. Nature would have a "greatest possible curvature" in some sense.

These smallest and largest things are not supposed to be exact, I think, but to have meaning as order of magnitude quantities, as *scales*.

The central coefficient in the Einstein GR equation is a FORCE. Usually you see it as an inverse force constant on the lefthand side:
8πG/c4

It relates curvature (on the left) to energy density and the like (on the right). IOW it relates geometry to matter.

I don't imagine folks understand this down to the level of precise detail, but in a general order of magnitude sense nature seems to have intrinsic scales of force, area, pressure, energy density, curvature, built into its very texture. At this point maybe it is just an intuitive feeling some people have. I believe we'll learn more.

To me, the minimal area (and the related maximal curvature, maximal energy concentration) seem more meaningful than the minimal length. The length is just a conceptual way of approach, leading to the other quantities. Have to go, no time to try to make this more coherent.
 
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vyas22 said:
Planck length [...] places a theoretical limit on minimum possible distance...

No, and the reason for this can be understood through this experiment:
Suppose the Earth receives a photon with a wavelength ##\gamma_1##. Since spacetime is expanding, we know that this photon had an original wavelength ##\gamma_2##, such that ##\gamma_2\lt\gamma_1##. This phenomenon is known as redshift. Nothing special.

Now, here's the thing, if the Earth receives from far away a photon whose wavelength is equal to Planck's length ##\ell_p##. This means that the photon before -- who traveled all this distance -- had a wavelength smaller than ##\ell_p##. And this contradicts the "Planck length [...] minimum possible distance".

This problem is known as the Trans-Planckian problem, it's still unsolved and that's mainly because we have no theory of quantum gravity that can describe what happens at such scales.
 
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Thank You all again for your responses,

To summarize what i learned here,

-Theoretically and debatably distances lesser than Planck length can not exist within normally observed properties and framework of space time
-Inverse of Planck length should just mean the number of Planck Length Units that can be included in a meter wide distance
 

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