Is There a Maximum Rotational Velocity for Pulsars?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the maximum rotational velocity of pulsars, exploring theoretical limits, the relationship between rotation and black hole formation, and the implications of energy density in these astrophysical objects. Participants delve into concepts from relativity, energy contributions, and the nature of pulsars.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that there is a maximum rotational velocity for pulsars, suggesting that beyond a certain point, energy requirements become infinite.
  • Others argue that a black hole's formation is primarily a matter of mass rather than velocity, stating that adding mass to a neutron star can lead to collapse into a black hole.
  • A participant mentions that increasing rotation imparts energy to the stress-energy-momentum tensor, potentially leading to conditions for black hole formation, though this is seen as occurring beyond the point where the star would disintegrate.
  • Another viewpoint suggests that rotation creates tension within the star, which could counteract collapse, introducing the concept of negative pressure.
  • A trivial upper limit for pulsar rotation is discussed, with calculations suggesting a neutron star could theoretically rotate at about 4800 times per second if it could rotate at the speed of light.
  • Some participants reference specific pulsars, noting that the fastest known pulsar has a frequency of approximately 1122 Hz, and others mention theoretical maximum frequencies based on neutron star mass.
  • One participant raises a tangential question about the observational evidence for pulsar rotation, referencing historical theories and the acceptance of pulsar models following discoveries.
  • There is a suggestion that the energy behavior in black holes, matter, and electromagnetic radiation may be fundamentally similar, though this remains a point of contention.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the relationship between rotational velocity, mass, and black hole formation. There is no consensus on the maximum rotational velocity or the implications of energy density in pulsars.

Contextual Notes

Some claims depend on specific assumptions about mass and density, and the discussion includes unresolved mathematical considerations regarding energy contributions and the mechanics of pulsar rotation.

Plaster
Messages
23
Reaction score
0
What is the fastest Possible rotational velocity for a pulsar ? There must be a point where it requires an infinity of energy to go any faster.

There is also a point where it becomes a black hole. How exactly does velocity relate to a fundamental shift in terms of how matter changes spacetime in such a fundamental way ?

Relativity describes it but doesn't explain it, just like the quantum formalism. Maybe my question can be summed up thus; what is the difference between energy in black holes, energy in matter, and energy in em radiation ?
 
Space news on Phys.org
Plaster said:
What is the fastest Possible rotational velocity for a pulsar ?
There is a point where the surface velocity is greater than the escape velocity - and so it would fly apart.


There is also a point where it becomes a black hole. How exactly does velocity relate to a fundamental shift in terms of how matter changes spacetime in such a fundamental way ?
Nothing to do with velocity, a black hole is just a question of mass, put enough extra mass onto a neutron star and it will collapse into a black hole.
The only thing rotation would do is prevent mass sticking to it.
 
mgb_phys said:
Nothing to do with velocity, a black hole is just a question of mass, put enough extra mass onto a neutron star and it will collapse into a black hole.
The only thing rotation would do is prevent mass sticking to it.

I think he means more that since when you spin something up you impart energy to it, you are contributing to the stress-energy-momentum tensor. So at some point, energy density should be high enough to collapse the object into a BH. Of course, this point is almost certainly far beyond the limit in which the neutron star flies apart, but it could be an interesting academic exercise.
 
I think he means more that since when you spin something up you impart energy to it, you are contributing to the stress-energy-momentum tensor. So at some point, energy density should be high enough to collapse the object into a BH.
No, what you're also adding is tension inside the body, since it has to withstand centrifugal "force". Tension = negative pressure = "negative energy". Rotating won't collapse an object.
 
A trivial upper limit is obtained by assuming that it rotates at the speed of light. A neutron star with radius 10 km would then rotate about 4800 times per second. The fastest pulsars are in fact millisecond pulsars, so they are only an order of magnitude below this very crude upper limit.
 
Count Iblis said:
A trivial upper limit is obtained by assuming that it rotates at the speed of light. A neutron star with radius 10 km would then rotate about 4800 times per second. The fastest pulsars are in fact millisecond pulsars, so they are only an order of magnitude below this very crude upper limit.

What density would such a neutron star have to be to rotate at, say, 2000 times per sec without flying apart ?
 
From http://arxiv.org/abs/0901.1268" , it seems that the maximum frequency is ~800 - 1400 Hz, depending on the mass of the neutron star.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
As as 2007 March 10, XTE J1739-285 is the fastest-spinning celestial body yet known, with a period of 1,122 Hz (approximately 67,320 RPM)
 
I would add that similar approaches are (trying) to be used to determine whether or not all singularities are "cloaked" by an Event Horizon. So for, yup, all are below their theorized upper limits.
 
  • #10
Plaster said:
What is the fastest Possible rotational velocity for a pulsar ?
Let me spin off at a tangent here, for a moment. How do you know that a pulsar is rotating in the first place?
Quoting webpages (as 'authority') - I read that Tommy Gold and Franco Pacini came up with the idea of spinning neutron stars. Not well received at first. Perhaps because it was based on the primitive mechanical lighthouse lantern concept? Then suddenly 1968 the discovery of a pulsar in the Crab Nebula led to the theory being accepted!

How does that make their theory acceptable? Are we actually seeing a spinning neutron star in that x-ray time-lapse movie by NASA/CXC/J.Hester et al? I would suggest that most pulsars are more like the current, replacement lighthouse system ie a strobe light. Pulses of energy by means of some resonant phenomena, akin to the electronic circuits that oscillate within the strobe. No real speed limit to that sort of system!

Plaster said:
Maybe my question can be summed up thus; what is the difference between energy in black holes, energy in matter, and energy in em radiation ?
Answer: No difference. It behaves like electricity in ionised gas..totally scalable (thus lab-testable).
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
1K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
4K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K