Is There a Natural Isomorphism from V to V**?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter yifli
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Isomorphism Natural
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the existence of a natural isomorphism from a vector space V to its double dual V**. Participants explore the implications of this isomorphism, particularly in the context of bilinear mappings and the relationship between a vector and its image under the isomorphism.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that there is a natural isomorphism from V to V**, defined via a bilinear mapping ω: V × V* → R.
  • Another participant challenges the existence of a natural isomorphism between V and V*, questioning the initial claim and suggesting that isomorphisms require specific conditions, such as the choice of an inner product.
  • A third participant clarifies that while there is no natural isomorphism from V to V* (especially if V is infinite-dimensional), there is one from V to V**, the dual of the dual space.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding the mapping of a vector ε in V, with a participant explaining that the image under the isomorphism is a function that takes elements from V* and maps them to their corresponding values at ε.
  • There is a suggestion that the initial description of the bilinear mapping may have been stated awkwardly, indicating potential miscommunication among participants.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the existence of a natural isomorphism between V and V*, with some asserting it does not exist while others focus on the isomorphism between V and V**. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these isomorphisms.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying interpretations of bilinear mappings and the nature of isomorphisms, indicating potential limitations in definitions and assumptions about the vector space V.

yifli
Messages
68
Reaction score
0
natural isomorphism from V to V**

It is known that there is a natural isomorphism [tex]\epsilon \rightleftharpoons \omega^\epsilon[/tex] from V to V**, where [tex]\omega: V \times V* \rightarrow R[/tex] is a bilinear mapping.

So given a certain [tex]\epsilon \in V[/tex], its image under the isomorphism is actually a set of values [tex]\left\{f(\epsilon),f \in V^*\right\}[/tex], i.e., a vector is mapped to a set of numbers

Is my understanding correct?

Thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org


yifli said:
It is known that there is a natural isomorphism [tex]\epsilon \rightleftharpoons \omega^\epsilon[/tex] from V to V**, where [tex]\omega: V \times V* \rightarrow R[/tex] is a bilinear mapping.

So given a certain [tex]\epsilon \in V[/tex], its image under the isomorphism is actually a set of values [tex]\left\{f(\epsilon),f \in V^*\right\}[/tex], i.e., a vector is mapped to a set of numbers

Is my understanding correct?

Thanks

There is no natural isomorphism between V and V*. What isomorphism are you thinking of?

Generally, any isomorphism requires the choice of an inner product where a vector in V is identified with a linear map from V into the base field. You can think of a linear map as a set of numbers but it is more than that because it is not just any map but is a linear map.
 


You are misreading what he said. There is no natural isomorphism from V to V*, the dual space, (if V has infinite dimension) but there is from V to V**, the dual of the dual.
 


lavinia said:
There is no natural isomorphism between V and V*. What isomorphism are you thinking of?
it 's true that there's no natural isomorphism between V and V*, but I'm talking about the natural isomorphism between V and V**
 


yifli said:
So given a certain [tex]\epsilon \in V[/tex], its image under the isomorphism is actually a set of values [tex]\left\{f(\epsilon),f \in V^*\right\}[/tex], i.e., a vector is mapped to a set of numbers

Is my understanding correct?
Not really. The image of [itex]\epsilon[/itex] is the function that takes [itex]f \in V^*[/itex] and maps it to [itex]f(\epsilon)[/itex]. I.E. [itex]\omega^\epsilon[/itex] the function defined by
[tex]\omega^\epsilon(f) = f(\epsilon)[/tex]​

Incidentally, I assume by [itex]\omega[/itex] you mean not a general bilinear mapping, but instead the specific map [itex]\omega(x,f) = f(x)[/tex]...<br /> <br /> (Although, I could imagine what you wrote being intended to mean this, but stated awkwardly)[/itex]
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
979
  • · Replies 69 ·
3
Replies
69
Views
9K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K