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Medical Is there a way to measure light frequencies of brainwaves

  1. Mar 1, 2015 #1
    Is there a way to measure the light frequencies of brainwaves outside of the brain.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Mar 1, 2015 #2

    phinds

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  4. Mar 1, 2015 #3

    SteamKing

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    It's not clear what you mean by 'the light frequencies of brainwaves.'

    Yes, there is electrical activity present in a living brain, but the frequency of this electrical activity ranges only up to about 100 Hz.
     
  5. Mar 2, 2015 #4
    Thank you for replies, I am actually seeking to find out if there is a light sensor to measure light wave output from the brain. Something like a miniature PET machine with real time output versus just photograph that can be lined via a brain cap of some sort to a computer.
     
  6. Mar 2, 2015 #5
    That was linked not lined in post above.
     
  7. Mar 2, 2015 #6

    SteamKing

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    What makes you think the brain is emitting light waves?
     
  8. Mar 2, 2015 #7
    I am an amateur at this so pardon me if I err, but my understanding is there is activity happening in the brain which to me connotes energy. Energy is usually a particle or waveform also known as a wavicle (hope I understand this correctly) which can possibly? be measured. That energy has a frequency? and that can be measured. I know we can measure the radio frequencies? of the brain and I am wondering if there are small enough sensors to measure the light frequencies. I can definitely be wrong here but if there are radio frequencies it seems to me there would be light frequencies that could also be measured if there are sensitive enough devices for that to take place. I know that history has shown that as we create better measuring devices we open new possibilities, and am wondering if there is? light output from the brain (thought everything was light or the absence? [not able to measure yet?] of it.) that we should (or eventually possible) to measure it, thereby opening the possibility of how to effect a change and work with increasing the functioning of the brain.
     
  9. Mar 2, 2015 #8

    phinds

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    Radio frequencies and light frequencies are all part of the electromagnetic spectrum. The brain does not emit electromagnetic frequencies in the visible light range.

    Read the references I provided.
     
  10. Mar 2, 2015 #9
    Brains do not emit light, and if they did, the inner skull would stop it. PET detects gamma rays, which are not light.
     
  11. Mar 3, 2015 #10

    Drakkith

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    The electrical activity in the brain is best described in terms of electromagnetic and chemical terms, not in terms of energy. For example, an EEG measures the voltage changes in the brain. These changes typically take place with a frequency of a few hertz to a few dozen hertz. (1 hertz = 1 cycle/oscillation per second)

    That's not quite accurate. We usually look at energy as being in either a 'potential energy' form or a 'kinetic energy' form. Most other 'forms' of energy are some variation of these two. The particle and wave stuff probably comes from a misunderstanding of the particle-wave duality of quantum mechanics.

    The energy itself doesn't have a frequency, but the physical manifestation of that energy may have a frequency. For example, a pendulum oscillates back and forth at a certain frequency, and as it oscillates it constantly converts potential energy to kinetic energy as it falls and then kinetic energy into potential energy as it rises. So the cycle of falling and rising can be assigned a frequency, but I think you'd be stretching it a bit to say that the energy itself has a frequency. (Though the conversion process of potential-to-kinetic and kinetic-to-potential energy certainly has a frequency)

    As has been said, the brain does not put out visible light. The frequency of the electrical activity in the brain is far too low.
     
  12. Mar 3, 2015 #11

    SteamKing

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    If the brain put out visible light, why were flashlights invented? :wink:
     
  13. Mar 3, 2015 #12

    Drakkith

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    For those whose brains don't put out enough power. Now where's my flashlight...
     
  14. Mar 3, 2015 #13
    "As been said the brain does not put out visible light" I have been constantly surprised by the invention of more sensitive ways of measuring energy in its many forms and amazed how the theories of universal laws shift when new mathematical theories are proven. Elmer and Alyce Green of the Menninger Foundation hooked a yogi up to equipment and recorded him raising the temperature in the palm of his hand to boil an egg. Biofeedback had its beginnings from curiosity like that. Imagine what would happen if we could understand exactly how something like that was done. Developing smaller and more refined ways of measuring brain function when it is that focused might show more activity and finer frequencies (perhaps even an extension of what we know as light) than what we are yet capable of measuring. My question was to see if someone on the cutting edge of refining the measuring of light has considered utilizing that to measure different states of focused brain potential, outside of what has been so far recorded by Google, which sometimes has confusing definitions.. For example I looked up gamma rays and found one statement that gamma ray are packets of electromagnetic energy photons. I looked up photons and found a photon is a discrete bundle or (quantum) of electromagnetic (or light) energy. So the statement that the PET detects gamma rays which are not light confused me. Thanks for the useful suggestions, the helpful imparting of knowledge, and the witty replies. If a flashlight brings light to darkness what is a brain good for might be a just a narrow focus on my part. :)
    Thank You. I found some helpful info about brain monitoring from the MIT post, as well as the EEG post. (I have a small EEG that I use with Hypnosis clients to monitor brain wave activity before, during and after the session.)
     
  15. Mar 3, 2015 #14

    Drakkith

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    None of which suddenly caused rocks to fall upwards any more than a new theory will cause the brain to emit visible light. It helps to understand what is already adequately explained by current physical laws before thumbing your nose at them.

    And since we've entered the realm of nonsense and pseudoscience, thread locked.
     
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