Is there no energy conservation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of energy conservation in the context of particle decay, particularly focusing on the energy of decay products compared to the original particle's rest energy, Mc². Participants explore the implications of decay width and uncertainty in mass on energy conservation, touching on theoretical and conceptual aspects of particle physics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that energy conservation holds, noting that decay products can have non-zero velocities in the original particle's rest frame, thus conserving energy and momentum in a closed system.
  • Others question how energy conservation applies when the decay products generally have different total energy than the original particle's rest energy, suggesting a potential conflict with conservation principles.
  • There is a discussion about the decay width being related to the uncertainty principle, with some participants proposing that a finite lifetime of particles leads to a non-zero mass distribution for the decay products.
  • Questions arise regarding the nature of mass uncertainty and whether it relates to momentum uncertainty, as well as the implications for the wave function of particles and the Hamiltonian.
  • Some participants express confusion about the term "mass width" and its significance in the context of particle decay and measurements.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of decay width and mass uncertainty for energy conservation. Multiple competing views remain regarding the interpretation of these concepts and their relevance to particle decay.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of mass and energy in particle physics, as well as the unresolved nature of how decay width influences the Hamiltonian and wave functions of particles.

nevo
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When we look at a particle's rest frame
its energy is Mc^2.
But the particle decay has some width, so the products of the particle,generally, will have total energy different than Mc^2.
How can it be, is there no energy conservation?
 
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nevo said:
When we look at a particle's rest frame
its energy is Mc^2.
But the particle decay has some width, so the products of the particle,generally, will have total energy different than Mc^2.
How can it be, is there no energy conservation?

Did you ever look at the kinetic energy of the decay products?

Zz.
 
There certainly is conservation of energy, the two decay particles may have some non-zero velocity in the original particle's rest frame. Energy and momentum are always conserved (in a closed system).

Edit: Dammit Zz.
 
At the beginning the two decay product did not exist.
For instance when a rho particle decay into to pions,
its energy in its rest frame is Mc^2.
But the decay products, the two pions,generally will have different energy than the original rho.
This is, as I understand, the meaning that the decay has a width.
 
The decay width is another name for the decay rate of a species. However, to answer what I believe your question to be; due to the HUP any particle with a finite lifetime has a non-zero mass distribution (has some uncertainty in the mass), this will result in a non-zero mass distribution for the products.
 
What do you mean by some uncertainty in the mass, is this like uncertainty
of the momentum?
Is the wave function of the particle is a superposition of eigen vectores with different mass eigen value?
Isn't the mass of the particle is the exact value that appear in the hamiltonian?
 
nevo said:
What do you mean by some uncertainty in the mass, is this like uncertainty
of the momentum?
Is the wave function of the particle is a superposition of eigen vectores with different mass eigen value?
Isn't the mass of the particle is the exact value that appear in the hamiltonian?

You do know that in these experiments, they don't measure just one decay, don't you? They measure a gazillion to get the statistics. So what do you think the "mass width" here means?

Zz.
 
First of all, I asked about the "mass width" because I don't understand this
expression.
Second, the fact that "They measure a gazillion to get the statistics" is gust a technical mean to learn about the physics, it is still meaningful to ask about one particle.
When I check about the muon mass in wikipedia or in any other place I always find gust one number, I never saw the width of its mass only of its decay, but even if there is such a thing as "mass width" it must influence the hamiltonian and also the one particle wave function.
 

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