Is This Equation a Valid Definition for Set A?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the validity of the equation A = {x | x ∈ A} as a definition for the set A. Participants explore whether this definition is circular or if it fails to uniquely determine the set A.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that the definition A = {x | x ∈ A} is circular and does not uniquely determine A, as every set would satisfy this definition.
  • Others propose that while the definition is valid, it is uninteresting and lacks the necessary conditions to define A in a meaningful way.
  • A participant suggests that the definition could be considered valid under certain conditions, such as the existence of an interesting axiom for A.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the equation has multiple solutions, which undermines its utility as a definition for A.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the validity and utility of the definition, with multiple competing views on whether it is circular or simply uninteresting.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the limitations of the proposed definition, particularly regarding its inability to uniquely identify the set A and the implications of circular definitions in set theory.

transphenomen
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Or is it too circular?

[tex] A = {x | x \in A}[/tex]
 
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I take it that you mean [tex]A=\{x~\vert~x\in A\}[/tex]. This is not a good definition of a set, since it does not determine A. The problem is that every set will be a possible A. I.e. every set A willl satisfy

[tex]A=\{x~\vert~x\in A\}[/tex]

Thus you have not determined A uniquely, this means that this is not a good definition of a set.
 
A={x|x is in A} iff {[for all u(u is in A iff u is in A) and A is set]or[There is no set B such that for all u(u is in B iff u is in B) and A=the empty set]}

Since the right side of the Iff is true by virtue of the tautology, x is in A iff x is in A, A={x|x is in A} is a valid but "uninteresting" definition, i.e. to define an interesting A, we must define A elsewhere with a more "interesting" axiom of existence.
 
Last edited:
To phrase it in different terms, claiming your equation as an implicit definition of A doesn't work, because the equation has more than one solution for A.
 

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