Is this plasma (picture in thread)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of a visual phenomenon captured in a photograph of a gun firing, specifically whether the emitted arcs are plasma or simply a muzzle flash. The scope includes technical explanations and conceptual clarifications related to firearms and their operation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the arcs visible in the image are plasma arcs resulting from ionized air.
  • Others argue that the phenomenon resembles a normal muzzle flash, typical for low-power rounds like 9mm or .40 Short and Weak.
  • A participant notes that the trails are likely from hot particles of the propellant being ejected after the bullet exits the barrel.
  • Another participant describes the visible effects as hot gas from the explosion and burning powder, emphasizing that all firearms eject some unburned propellant.
  • One participant speculates that the intensity of the flash may correlate with the caliber of the firearm, sharing personal experiences with different calibers.
  • Another participant mentions that the jagged trajectories of the material resemble lightning but concludes they do not possess enough energy to be classified as plasma discharges.
  • There is a mention of using phosphorous concoctions to enhance muzzle flash effects, particularly in movie firearms.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the arcs are plasma or simply a muzzle flash, indicating a lack of consensus on the nature of the phenomenon depicted in the image.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the energy levels and characteristics of the flash are not fully explored, and there are references to personal experiences with different firearms that may influence interpretations.

Kidphysics
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http://postimg.org/image/d530nwobf/

those are plasma arcs emitting from the gun no? Ionized air?
 
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Agreed. While I'm not sure about the colour reproduction, it certainly looks like any normal muzzle flash for a low-power round such as a 9mm or a 40 Short and Weak.
 
Kidphysics said:
http://postimg.org/image/d530nwobf/

those are plasma arcs emitting from the gun no? Ionized air?


no ... those fine trails are from hot particles of the charge power used ... (cordite - gunpowder- what ever is used these days) being ejected from the barrel after the round has left the barrel

Dave
 
Last edited by a moderator:
davenn said:
no ... those fine trails are from hot particles of the charge power used ... (cordite - gunpowder- what ever is used these days) being ejected from the barrel after the round has left the barrel

Dave

So its hot particles are radiating that priduces the trail
 
Kidphysics said:
So its hot particles are radiating that priduces the trail

Right. The big ball right in front of the muzzle is hot gas from the explosion. The little sparkly streaks are powder that is still burning. All firearms eject the bullet before all of the propellant is consumed. Some suppressed versions disguise that by keeping the flash inside a secondary sleeve beyond the barrel, but they all do it.
The reason that I speculated a weak calibre for the picture is that it seems to be a pretty tame output. My .44 magnum Super Blackhawk laid out a flash almost half a metre long. Conversely, my 7.65mm FN27 was barely noticeable, even in a dark environment, and that was with hot-loaded military steel-jacket ammo. The "overage" is usually proportional to the power of the round.
 
The jagged trajectories of the hot material does resemble a lightning stroke or the trails in a plasma discharge globe but they are not. I don't think there is enough energy in the flash to do that and, anyway, they don't arc to anything.

Some people increase the effect of the muzzleflash using phosphorous concoctions - in those you get even bigger jagged trails with no suggestion that these are somehow miniature lightning.

There are lots of pic of regular muzzle-flashes online - go look - this one is about average.
But it is still a cool shot ;)
 
Simon Bridge said:
Some people increase the effect of the muzzleflash using phosphorous concoctions
That is frequently done with the blanks in movie guns.
 

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