Is this Proof of √3 Irrationality Flawed?

  • Thread starter Thread starter gottfried
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Irrational Root
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the irrationality of the square root of 3, specifically addressing the claim that if a rational number squared equals 3, then it leads to a contradiction. The original poster questions the validity of the proof by comparing it to a similar argument for the square root of 4.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to establish a proof by contradiction regarding the rationality of √3, while questioning the applicability of the same logic to √4. Other participants discuss the role of prime numbers in the proof and clarify why the argument does not hold for non-prime numbers like 4.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging in clarifying the reasoning behind the proof and addressing the original poster's concerns. Some have provided insights into the differences between prime and composite numbers in relation to the proof's validity.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the importance of prime factorization in the proof and the implications of assuming properties of numbers without considering their primality. The original poster's confusion stems from applying a proof technique that is specific to prime numbers to a composite number scenario.

gottfried
Messages
118
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement



Prove that there is no rational x such that x2=3

2. The attempt at a solution

Suppose that there is a rational x=[itex]\frac{a}{b}[/itex]=[itex]\sqrt{3}[/itex] and that the fraction is fully simplified. (ie. a and b have no common factor)

Then a2/b2=3 which means a2=b2.3 and it follows that a is a factor of 3 and be written a=3.k (k is an integer). Therefore a2/b2 = 9.k2/b2=3. Therefore b2=3.k2.

This means both a and b are multiples of 3 and this contradicts our original assumption that the fraction is fully simplified.

3. Question

As far as I can tell the proof is sound but if you replace 3 with 4 the same logic holds and this means there is no rational number x such that x2=4 which is obviously wrong since 2 does. So what is wrong with this proof.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
No, the "same logic" does not work with 4 because 3 is a prime number and 4 is not. 6 is not a multiple of 4 but [itex]6^2= 36= 4(9)[/itex] is. That's because 6(6)= (2(3))(2(3))= (2)(2)(3)(3)= 4(9). You can't do that with 3.

More formally, every integer is of the form 3k or 3k+1 or 3k+ 2 for some integer k. [itex](3k)^2= 9k^2= 3(3k^2)[/itex] is a multiple of 3. [itex](3k+1)^2= 9k^2+ 6k+ 2= 3(3k^2+ 2k)+ 1[/itex] is not a multiple of 3. [itex](3k+2)^2= 9k^2+ 12k+ 4= 3(3k^2+ 4k+ 1)+ 1[/itex] is not a multiple of 3. That is, for any integer, n, [itex]n^2[/itex] is a multiple of 3 if and only if n is a multiple of 3.

That does NOT work with 4. Every integer is of the form 4k, or 4k+1, or 4k+ 2, or 4k+ 3. BOTH [itex](4k)^2= 16k^2= 4(4k^2)[/itex] and [itex](4k+ 2)= 16k^2+ 16k+ 4= 4(4k^2+ 4k+ 1)[/itex] are multiples of 4.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Your proof uses your previous result, that if [itex]p^2[/itex] is a multiple of 3, then [itex]p[/itex] also is. This is only true for prime numbers.
 
Thanks for clearing it up that makes perfect sense
 

Similar threads

Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
6K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
4K