Is True Freedom Possible in Modern Society?

[wolram]

Can anyone ever be free of modern day life, one can talk up how great it is to live in this age, but it seems to me there is less and less freedom to do as one wants, sure one has the freedom to become a millionaire but is that as good as being totally free, if modern day medicines and health care was revoked the population would return to some natural level, a level that would be sustainable and may be free from governments, a population that could live a life.

 

[NeoDevin]

I read the title and thought you were offering a free soul...

 

[Huckleberry]

I don't know how things are in your part of the world, but times are changing over here in the U.S. I listened to the stories that my grandfather used to tell me and was amazed at the things he would get away with. He's an old man now and has lived, more or less, an honorable life. If kids today were to do the things that he did then they would be put into prison and labeled as criminals. Back then it was just raising a little hell.

I consider freedom a responsibility that needs to be exercised. The current worldview seems to be shifting towards heavy-handed government authority and strict social adherence. It's not that I have a problem with most of the laws. It's just the sheer number of them and the lack of tolerance for dissent. I don't believe there is freedom without individuality. While I believe there should be consequences for 'raising hell', making good life decisions has no value if it is done out of fear of making bad ones. Younger individuals especially, when exploring their individuality, will rebel against authority. To show that they are not afraid they will liberate themselves from authority by making bad decisions. The strictness of authority only serves to up the ante, which I believe contributes to the severity of many crimes committed these days.

If my grandfather were to do the things he did in his youth today he would be a convicted criminal. Instead, he has raised a family and lived a decent life and is now retired, without having raised any hell for many decades. People need the choice to make good or bad decisions.

In my grandfather's time a barfight was just a barfight. People got beaten bloody and maybe spent the weekend in jail. Nowadays your lucky if someone doesn't pull out a knife or a gun. People demand respect of their individuality. Some are not concerned with how they get it. Others feel quietly stifled. Others don't seem to be affected much at all.

 

[Astronuc]

How does one define totally free?

What does it mean to have "freedom to do as one wants"? That seems very rare. Does that imply freedom from responsibility or the consequences of one's actions?

How about freedom from want?

if modern day medicines and health care was revoked the population would return to some natural level, a level that would be sustainable and may be free from governments, a population that could live a life.

I imagine of the constraints on society were removed, e.g. freedom from government, then all h*** would break loose, i.e. anarchy. There are just too many people with too many competing interests, and there are those who want way more than a fair share (IMO of course). And then there are those who feel compelled to impose some control on others (e.g. Saddam Hussein, George Bush, . . . .)

 

[Evo]

Darn, I thought you were offering me your soul, I sold mine a long time ago.

When are you ever free from some sort of "government"? Even cavemen would have had some type of "leader" and some level of what was acceptable to others in the group.

Unless you are willing and capable of living completely isolated from others, you will be subjected to some types of "rules" at some point.

 

[lisab]

I get this same feeling often. Modern life sort of chafes me sometimes. Especially if I read something by Thoreau...I feel like I'm not living the life that my body evolved to live. Well I suppose that's obviously true; humans evolved to be farmers and hunters, mostly. Modern life involves a lot of sitting on one's rear.

But then I remember how much I love my creature comforts...and modern medicine has saved my life at least twice.

 

[arildno]

I am currently making researches into the Hyborian Age. The Cimmerian seems to have been a free soul.

 

[JasonRox]

This is meaningless unless we know what you're defining freedom as.

 

[wolram]

This is meaningless unless we know what you're defining freedom as.

It means free from charges for water, the freedom to have some land, all land was stolen in the first place so no beggar owns it, and why is it that the most annoying vehicles ( farm type) can make the worst mess of our roads and pay the least for the use of them, b***y farmers are a pain in the backside, and tell me that is not so when you are sliding down a two inch thick layer of mud left by your friendly farmer, the guy who cocks his nose at you when you know you are are paying him to stay in business, well from now on if i want any thing from the land i will take it and sod the law.

 

[Poop-Loops]

Can anyone ever be free of modern day life, one can talk up how great it is to live in this age, but it seems to me there is less and less freedom to do as one wants, sure one has the freedom to become a millionaire but is that as good as being totally free, if modern day medicines and health care was revoked the population would return to some natural level, a level that would be sustainable and may be free from governments, a population that could live a life.

I'm sorry, but I'm calling BS on this whole thing.

How could a population "live a life" when they don't have enough to eat? When they don't have fresh water? When they don't have the ability to prevent and cure diseases? The ability to do all of that comes from better technology.

It's easy to say life might be better without technology, but let's face it, you don't have a clue, because you've lived your whole life with it.

However, it's downright stupid to say we should revoke modern day medicines and health care because you think the survivors would have an easier life. When you're willing to die so that I have a better life, then you can start talking about it.

All the kids who LARP and wish they lived in the middle ages have NO CLUE that it downright sucked. It was hard work, famine, disease, and more hard work. No dragons, no magic. Any "freedom" you had was given to you by the people who owned you. The people who could kick your ass.

 

[wolram]

I'm sorry, but I'm calling BS on this whole thing.

How could a population "live a life" when they don't have enough to eat? When they don't have fresh water? When they don't have the ability to prevent and cure diseases? The ability to do all of that comes from better technology.

It's easy to say life might be better without technology, but let's face it, you don't have a clue, because you've lived your whole life with it.

However, it's downright stupid to say we should revoke modern day medicines and health care because you think the survivors would have an easier life. When you're willing to die so that I have a better life, then you can start talking about it.

All the kids who LARP and wish they lived in the middle ages have NO CLUE that it downright sucked. It was hard work, famine, disease, and more hard work. No dragons, no magic. Any "freedom" you had was given to you by the people who owned you. The people who could kick your ass.

So you are ok? what about the other 95% that live of you, would you be better off without them?

 

[russ_watters]

Can anyone ever be free of modern day life, one can talk up how great it is to live in this age, but it seems to me there is less and less freedom to do as one wants, sure one has the freedom to become a millionaire but is that as good as being totally free, if modern day medicines and health care was revoked the population would return to some natural level, a level that would be sustainable and may be free from governments, a population that could live a life.

Well, what sort of alternative lifestyle are you talking about?

 

[russ_watters]

It means free from charges for water

You don't have to pay for water now if you don't want to - go get your own! It's still quite common in the US. But if you want someone to bring it to your house for you, you'll always have to pay for it.

the freedom to have some land, all land was stolen in the first place so no beggar owns it,

That makes no sense. It sounds like your idea here is that you just want things given to you by other people without giving anything in return.

and why is it that the most annoying vehicles ( farm type) can make the worst mess of our roads and pay the least for the use of them, b***y farmers are a pain in the backside, and tell me that is not so when you are sliding down a two inch thick layer of mud left by your friendly farmer, the guy who cocks his nose at you when you know you are are paying him to stay in business, well from now on if i want any thing from the land i will take it and sod the law.

Not sure what that is, but it sounds like babbling to me...

 

[Poop-Loops]

So you are ok? what about the other 95% that live of you, would you be better off without them?

What.

I have no idea what you are talking about now.

 

[wolram]

You don't have to pay for water now if you don't want to - go get your own! It's still quite common in the US. But if you want someone to bring it to your house for you, you'll always have to pay for it. That makes no sense. It sounds like your idea here is that you just want things given to you by other people without giving anything in return. Not sure what that is, but it sounds like babbling to me...

May be in the US you can fetch your water for free but not in the UK.

Historically all land has been taken who is to say who owns it.

farmers are subsidised so heavily but yet they seem to have the run of the countryside
with no regard for others, they should be cocking there hats to us not us to them.