Isomorphism between R^inf and a proper subset of R^inf

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter jojo12345
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Isomorphism
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of isomorphism between the vector space of infinite sequences of real numbers, denoted as \(\mathbb{R}^\infty\), and a proper subset of this space. Participants explore the definition of a mapping \(\phi\) and its properties to determine if it establishes an isomorphism.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a mapping \(\phi :\mathbb{R}^\infty\rightarrow\mathbb{R}^\infty\) defined by \(\phi(a_1,a_2,...)=(0,a_1,a_2,...)\) and questions if their logic is flawed.
  • Another participant challenges the definition of the inverse of a specific sequence and questions the necessity of discussing the inverse.
  • A participant acknowledges the initial proposal is not an isomorphism and redefines \(\phi\) to map to a subspace \(S\) of sequences starting with zero, suggesting an inverse function \(\phi^{-1}\) that maps back to \(\mathbb{R}^\infty\).
  • One participant outlines the necessary conditions for \(\phi\) to be an isomorphism, listing properties such as well-definedness, linearity, and identity composition.
  • A later reply asserts that if \(\phi\) is injective, it can be concluded that it is an isomorphism onto its image, suggesting that surjectivity onto the image suffices.
  • Another participant expresses confidence that certain properties imply linearity of the inverse and thanks others for their input.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the initial mapping is an isomorphism, as there is a recognition of flaws in the initial logic and subsequent redefinitions. The discussion includes both agreement on the properties needed for isomorphism and differing views on the implications of injectivity and surjectivity.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the definitions and properties of mappings without resolving the broader implications of injectivity and surjectivity in the context of isomorphisms.

jojo12345
Messages
42
Reaction score
0
I'm fairly certain the following is a vector space isomorphism [tex]\phi :\mathbb{R}^\infty\rightarrow\mathbb{R}^\infty[/tex] where the vector space is the space of infinite sequences of real numbers and phi is defined by [tex]\phi(a_1,a_2,...)=(0,a_1,a_2,...)[/tex]. The mapping is linear and the inverse seems to be well defined. Is my logic flawed?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
jojo12345 said:
the inverse seems to be well defined
What's the inverse of (1, 0, 0, 0, ...)?

(Why are you asking about the inverse anyways?)
 
You're right. As I wrote it, phi isn't an isomorphism. I'll try again. Define [tex]\phi :\mathbb{R}^\infty\rightarrow S[/tex] ,where [tex]S\subset \mathbb{R}^\infty[/tex] is the subspace containing all infinite sequences of reals of the form [tex](0,a_1,a_2,...)[/tex], as: [tex]\phi(a_1,a_2,...)=(0,a_1,a_2,...)[/tex]. Define the inverse function [tex]\phi^{-1}:S\rightarrow\mathbb{R}^\infty[/tex] as: [tex]\phi^{-1}(0,a_1,a_2,...)=(a_1,a_2,...)[/tex]. Does this establish an isomorphism between [tex]\mathbb{R}^\infty[/tex] and [tex]S[/tex]?
 
Let's see... the things you need are
1. phi is well-defined
2. phi is linear
3. phi^-1 is well-defined
4. phi^-1 is linear
5. The composition of phi with phi^-1 is the identity
6. The composition of phi^-1 with phi is the identity

You've checked all of those, right? Then congratulations, you have an isomorphism!


Incidentally, you can prove a more general theorem: if phi is injective can you show it's an isomorphism onto its image? (And thus, all you need for your problem is an injection that is not surjective)
 
yes, it must be because it's surjective onto its image. Also, I think that 1,2,3,5,6 combined imply 4. Thanks a lot!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
6K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
2K
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K