News Jet Blue Maintenance Outsourced to El Salvador

[Pengwuino]

The problem is that when you buy a product, there is no way to know that the support services is in Bangalore. And if it isn't in Bangalore today it probably will be next week.

Well you can stop buying from them... tell friends not to buy from them (especially if its a infrequent purchase)... etc etc.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

The problem is that when you buy a product, there is no way to know that the support services is in Bangalore. And if it isn't in Bangalore today it probably will be next week.

It's called being a responsable consumer. Do you not check up on the customer service and satisfaction of the products that you buy before you perchase them? If not, that's your own fault. It's pretty easy to do now considering that you have the internet at your disposal.

 

[edward]

It appears Blue outsources 63% which is not as high as several other airlines. http://www.amtonline.com/publication/article.jsp?pubId=1&id=1713

This article is dated 8-8-05.

From this article is a sub link:

It seems that the FAA inspectors who inspect domestic and foreign aircraft maintenance facilities are union workers. I did not know that. No wonder we have such an enormous budget deficit. I'll bet we could get a better deal by hiring Chinese inspectors, and firing all of those lazy, lame, coffee guzzling civil serpants

The Professional Airways Systems Specialists (PASS) is the union that represents more than 12,000 employees of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Department of Defense (DoD). Our members are dedicated to certifying the safety and the efficiency of the National Airspace System (NAS); maintaining and supporting this nation’s air traffic control system with the utmost professionalism; and ensuring the integrity, the reliability, and the safety of the commercial and general aviation industries. Whenever you fly, the work our members do behind the scenes helps you get there safely.

http://www.passnational.org/Public/what_is_pass_.html

 

[Pengwuino]

Yes, 70% can be expressed in the fraction 70/100, or 7/10.

Smurf sucks 10/10 times

 

[edward]

Yes, 70% can be expressed in the fraction 70/100, or 7/10.

Thanks Smurf, I hope you did't strain any brain cells figuring that out. I thought it was 22/30 or 11/15

 

[loseyourname]

From this article is a sub link:

It seems that the FAA inspectors who inspect domestic and foreign aircraft maintenance facilities are union workers. I did not know that. No wonder we have such an enormous budget deficit. I'll bet we could get a better deal by hiring Chinese inspectors, and firing all of those lazy, lame, coffee guzzling civil serpants

Ha, the only thing worse than a union worker is a government worker. My dad gets $70K a year to sit in a truck reading the newspaper 90% of the time. I have to admit, though, last time I was in a union, I had no problem with it. Even though I ended up being downsized.

 

[Smurf]

Thanks Smurf, I hope you did't strain any brain cells figuring that out. I thought it was 22/30 or 11/15

Elementry my dear watson.

 

[loseyourname]

By the way - of all the airlines you could criticize, why Jet Blue? They're about the only airline left that still turns a profit and doesn't drain taxpayer funds. They've got pretty nice planes, good service, and their fares are very cheap. They've allowed college kids that don't have much money, such as myself, to fly across the country comfortably many times.

 

[Pengwuino]

By the way - of all the airlines you could criticize, why Jet Blue? They're about the only airline left that still turns a profit and doesn't drain taxpayer funds. They've got pretty nice planes, good service, and their fares are very cheap. They've allowed college kids that don't have much money, such as myself, to fly across the country comfortably many times.

Politics. Something goes wrong, have to immediately make it a political blame-game. Figure out a way to push your agenda and all.

 

[EnumaElish]

With unions, outsourcing, bankruptcy, deregulation and actual or potential terrorism, airlines are still far safer than driving. I am not seeing a wave of criticism against the auto industry, though, political or otherwise. What is it that makes the 10,000s of auto accident related deaths every year an ordinary fact of life ("sh*t happens") but when a plane has a flat tire everybody is all over it?

 

[Pengwuino]

Yah its safer then pretty much anything else.

Problem is that in auto accidents, its a lot of accidents/period of time with little loss of human life... but when its a plane, its one accident/long period of time with a large loss of life and nothing makes better news then large losses of life.

Hell if we devoted proportional time to deaths in driving, no one would want to drive ever again :D

 

[kat]

I thought the problem with landing gear on this model of airbus had to do with a design issue not maintenance?

 

[Yonoz]

I reckon outsourcing is the product of globalization, more than anything else. There's nothing new about minimizing expenditures. However, long-distance communication has become cheaper and people who rarely meet Westerners speak relatively fair English thanks to the US's successful entertainment industry.
Furthermore, as painful as it is to have to lose jobs in one's country, IMO outsourcing is much more helpful for poorer nations than simply sending them aid. Of course, there will always be criticism of where the saved capital goes, but that should really go in another thread, shouldn't it?

 

[EnumaElish]

We like cheap air travel. We don't like jobs outsourced to poor nations. We don't really care how airlines reduce their fares. And we don't like illegal immigrants pouring into our borders.

The logical conclusion is that the average wage (incl. benefits) must be too high in the U.S. relative to other countries! Reduce the wages and you solve all of the above.

And a higher U.S. unemployment rate should help, too. (Is this too cycnical for the crybabies? Can their hearts take it? U.S. healtcare system and crisis prevention hotline is here to help!)

While at it, isn't it time that the boomers retired? (Yeah, this is meant for you, too; so stop acting like it isn't.) Let go of them jobs; try life after retirement. How long since you have taken a quiet walk with your life partner? It will be good for you, believe me.

 

[SOS2008]

Ha, the only thing worse than a union worker is a government worker.

That's because they are both -

UNION MEMBERS IN 2004

In 2004, 12.5 percent of wage and salary workers were union members,
down from 12.9 percent in 2003, the U.S. Department of Labor's Bureau of
Labor Statistics reported today. The union membership rate has steadily
declined from a high of 20.1 percent in 1983, the first year for which
comparable union data are available...

Membership by Industry and Occupation

In 2004, workers in the public sector had a union membership rate more
than four times that of private-sector employees. At 36.4 percent, the
unionization rate for government workers was down slightly from 37.2
percent a year earlier. The rate for private industry workers, at 7.9
percent in 2004, was about half what it had been in 1983. Within the
public sector, local government workers had the highest union membership
rate, 41.3 percent. This group includes several heavily unionized occu-
pations, such as teachers, police officers, and fire fighters. Among
major private industries, transportation and utilities had the highest
union membership rate, at 24.9 percent. Construction (14.7 percent),
information industries (14.2 percent), and manufacturing (12.9 percent)
also had higher-than-average rates. Within the information industry,
telecommunications had a 22.4 percent union membership rate. Financial
activities had the lowest unionization rate in 2004--2.0 percent.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm

We like cheap air travel. We don't like jobs outsourced to poor nations. We don't really care how airlines reduce their fares. And we don't like illegal immigrants pouring into our borders.

The logical conclusion is that the average wage (incl. benefits) must be too high in the U.S. relative to other countries! Reduce the wages and you solve all of the above.

And a higher U.S. unemployment rate should help, too. (Is this too cycnical for the crybabies? Can their hearts take it? U.S. healtcare system and crisis prevention hotline is here to help!)

While at it, isn't it time that the boomers retired? (Yeah, this is meant for you, too; so stop acting like it isn't.) Let go of them jobs; try life after retirement. How long since you have taken a quiet walk with your life partner? It will be good for you, believe me.

Wages can only be reduced if Cost of Living is reduced. And let's hope the baby boomers keep working and paying into Social Security for as long as they can, eh?

American workers need to provide a high-level product/service equivalent to their pay. This is the problem. Companies out source not just because of the cheap labor, but because the quality of product/service remains acceptable, sometimes even at higher levels. We need to produce a better labor force, particularly high-tech, science, medical, etc.

In the meantime, loyalty is gone between companies and employees, pride in a job well done, etc. So many here in the U.S. try to get ahead with ploys (I'm so tired of the up-sale every where I go, the bait and switch, etc.) and other such means instead of providing good products/services, making an honest living and getting ahead with investment, entrepreneurial risk, etc.

Both companies and workers are responsible, and both need to think about where we are heading.

 

[edward]

And a higher U.S. unemployment rate should help, too. (Is this too cycnical for the crybabies? Can their hearts take it? U.S. healtcare system and crisis prevention hotline is here to help!)

What U.S. healthcare system would you be talking about?? The one with 40 million uninsured working people I would suppose, since that is the only one there is.

 

[edward]

It's called being a responsable consumer. Do you not check up on the customer service and satisfaction of the products that you buy before you perchase them? If not, that's your own fault. It's pretty easy to do now considering that you have the internet at your disposal.

Yea sure blame it all on the consumer; my particular problem was with Chase Manhatten Bank and I had never had a problem until recently. It seems the folks in Bangalore can't figure out the American time zone system. I finally ended up closing out the account in disgust yesterday morning. They called already this morning trying to get me back.

 

[Evo]

I've had excellent service from the Indian help desks, they're knowledgeable, polite, helpful & responsive, I get better service than from the American staffed customer service departments where after holding for 50 minutes you hear the rep laughing and chatting with friends, then they cut you off and you have to dial back in and hold another 50 minutes.

 

[EnumaElish]

What U.S. healthcare system would you be talking about?? The one with 40 million uninsured working people I would suppose, since that is the only one there is.

That's a start, but seemingly the average Joe or Jane is still too expensive not to be outsourced. (All PF'ers are above average, naturally.)

P.S. There is this little fascist/nihilist voice that speaks to me once in a while, and says "all peoples are being governed by the governments they deserve" and "all peoples are getting the health system they deserve." And sometimes I need to try really hard to shut up the little d*ckhead.

 

[loseyourname]

I've had excellent service from the Indian help desks, they're knowledgeable, polite, helpful & responsive, I get better service than from the American staffed customer service departments where after holding for 50 minutes you hear the rep laughing and chatting with friends, then they cut you off and you have to dial back in and hold another 50 minutes.

Personally, I've never experienced good phone service no matter where it's coming from, unless I'm calling directly to store or something. Call centers I've had contact with have been almost uniformly bad - Indian, American, or Martian. (Oh, and I do call directly to my bank when I have a problem, not a call center. Maybe you should switch to a credit union, Ed.)

 

[loseyourname]

That's because they are both -
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm

Believe me, I know. They take your dues and send them to God knows what cause that you may or may not know about, and then they even tell you how to vote. The difference with the government workers, though, is that their union-induced inefficiency doesn't bankrupt anyone. The government either raises taxes or diverts funds from something else.

 

[MaxS]

Get rid of the unions.

ROFL Go read a history book.

 

[Yonoz]

There was one instance here in which the Histadrut, the largest Labour organisation, agreed to a 5-year tax increase at a time of market-wide financial crisis proposed by the Ministry of Finance. IMO it's a display of proper foresight by the workers' leadership.

 

[Art]

There was one instance here in which the Histadrut, the largest Labour organisation, agreed to a 5-year tax increase at a time of market-wide financial crisis proposed by the Ministry of Finance. IMO it's a display of proper foresight by the workers' leadership.

In Ireland there have been national pay and conditions agreements between the unions, employers orgs and the gov't for the past 10 years resulting in record economic growth and the practical elimination of workplace confrontations. For example in the last financial quarter only a total of 300 days were lost nationwide through strike action.

When unions adopt this type of higher level interaction taking a broader national perspective they still have a valuable role to play; those that don't have far out-lived their usefulness.

 

[edward]

When unions adopt this type of higher level interaction taking a broader national perspective they still have a valuable role to play; those that don't have far out-lived their usefulness.

Why that higher level of interaction has not happened in the U.S. is a mystery to me. Most of the Unions are willing, and most have given huge concessions to corporations.

Some here keep saying that the striking Northwest Airlines mechanics are causing the companies financial problems, but in fact the mechanics union agreed three years ago to allow Northwest to outsource 60% of maintenance to El Salvador. The problems with the airlines began with 9/11 and nothing the unions could have done would have changed anything significantly.

There are many non union companies that are outsourcing jobs. I am inclined to believe that the profit motive is more involved here than the, "we must outsource to survive" stories being peddled by big corporations.

One thing other than the loss of jobs that bothers me about outsourcing aircraft maintenance to countries like El Salvador, is the security factor.
Few of the workers in foreign maintenance facilities are licensed By the FAA to do maintenance work. I can only imagine what the security situation is like.

In this country a person without a security back ground check is not allowed to get close to the major components of an aircraft. They also must pass drug screening here. Not so in El Salvador, Jose could be high as a kite and paid by terrorists and still work on American aircraft.

After spending multiple millions on airport security the U.S. govenment allows the planes to go into an unsecure environment for maintenance.