News Kansas votes to endorse ignorance

[Astronuc]

And I missed all the fun. I always fall asleep at the wrong time.

Well, I have learned one thing. Noodly appendages are not very effective on dead horses.

And I was so looking forward to a beer volcano. Which leads me to ask, is there more than one? I mean, are there Stout Volcanos? Lager ones? How about Ales, Lambics, Meads, . . . ?

And where do they get the ingredients, e.g. yeasts, malt, hope, honey, are they heaven grown or are they imported?

Hey, can we discuss this in chemistry class?

 

[Astronuc]

Now seriously,

Debunking the traditional conceptions of both God and man, thinkers such as Charles Darwin, Karl Marx, and Sigmund Freud portrayed humans not as moral and spiritual beings, but as animals or machines who inhabited a universe ruled by purely impersonal forces and whose behavior and very thoughts were dictated by the unbending forces of biology, chemistry, and environment. This materialistic conception of reality eventually infected virtually every area of our culture, from politics and economics to literature and art

from the beginning of the THE WEDGE STRATEGY
CENTER FOR THE RENEWAL OF SCIENCE & CULTURE.

This is a blatant misrepresentation of the works of these persons, and all scientist since then. In fact, it is a bald face LIE! It appears that members of Center for the Renewal of Science & Culture are redefining words and misusing language in order to undermine science and the scientific method.

I do see a problem however in the our language where we have multiple definitions for a single word, e.g. materialism.

From Merriam-Webster's online dictionary - definition of materialism:

1 a : a theory that physical matter is the only or fundamental reality and that all being and processes and phenomena can be explained as manifestations or results of matter b : a doctrine that the only or the highest values or objectives lie in material well-being and in the furtherance of material progress c : a doctrine that economic or social change is materially caused -- compare HISTORICAL MATERIALISM

2 : a preoccupation with or stress upon material rather than intellectual or spiritual things

Many scientists, particularly physics understand a mutual relationship between matter and energy, so in that sense, physics certainly is not materialistic. And I have not heard any scientist or engineer for that matter advocate points 1b or 1c.

As for definition 2, many people may be preoccupied with things material, e.g. cars, large homes, latest fashion trends, etc. - however many people are not.

Unfortunately, ID proponents seem to believe that anyone who does not share the ID point of view must be materialist, which is certainly not the case.

 

[pattylou]

...Only problem is the board--probably one of the best resources for scientific discussion period--suffers from uneared "me too" pretention, gang rape disdain for religious critics of naturalism...

?? You're making assumptions here. Many of the people you are claiming as gang-rapists are religious in one way or another (few are fundamentalists, but you'll even find that occasionally.).

Scientists tend to keep science and religion separate. That's the point. Scientists do not think that science encompasses teh entire human experience. Science is a small part of the educational curriculum. There is no reason to put religion in science.

Put it in P.E. or History or Home Ec. It fits as well there as it does in Science.

Or, here's a thought: Put it in religious education.

If PE instructors said that they didn't want to teach creationism in PE, would you say they were gang raping religious critiques of PE? Or, would you recognize that it is silly to try to mix the two?

I'm sorry to see that you've been banned.

-Patty

Aside to whomever thought that I had been a nurse: I've never been a nurse. I teach Microbiology to pre-nursing students. Instruction from nurses usually comes in the nursing program itself.

 

[daveb]

Gee, do you think those that advocate the teaching of ID in science classrooms would also advocate the teaching of UFO's, Alien Abductions, etc.?

 

[Phobos]

Gee, do you think those that advocate the teaching of ID in science classrooms would also advocate the teaching of UFO's, Alien Abductions, etc.?

I'll have to pour back over the Kitzmiller case transcripts, but I seem to recall that Dr. Behe had to essentially defend astrology as a science in order to be consistent with his advocating ID as science.

 

[Astronuc]

If you want additional courses introduced in high school on philosophy or comparative religions, or wherever ID might fit, what other part of the curriculum will you do away with, English, history, math, foreign languages, sciences, computer science, arts? Is there a reason it needs to be taught in public schools? Why isn't Sunday school sufficient?

I don't think we can have room for any thing else, but I would recommend electives such as:

Astronomy
Charms
Defense Against the Dark Arts
Herbology
History of Magic
Potions
Transfiguration

Ancient Runes
Arithmancy
Care of Magical Creatures
Divination

Muggle Studies is already covered in humanities and social sciences.

 

[pattylou]

Gee, do you think those that advocate the teaching of ID in science classrooms would also advocate the teaching of UFO's, Alien Abductions, etc.?

Dunno. But they have tried to encroach into geology classes as well, saying that plate tectonics are just a theory. They also have set their sites on the Big Bang, in order to prove that that notion is flawed as well.

I can dig up a reference if anyone wants.

 

[McGyver]

Life's Probabilities, Choices, and Intelligent Discretion

It seems at this juncture that this topic has been explored in as much detail as is reasonably possible with the knowledge that we have today. However, bear in mind, knowledge is an ever-changing act with TIME.

Much of modern living, and much of science as well, is based upon "probabilities." In it's purest or highest form, science has allowed modern man to decipher and invent formulas and theories with incredible accuracy. Some examples include many widely used mathematical formulas, determinations of time and distance, and astronomy. In fact, the Earth will add an additional "one second" to our official clock on New Years, to account for the Earth's slight slowing of rotation. It was reported this will be the 17th second that has been added since the early 1970s. It is amazing how "precise" we can be at times, whereas, in other instances science can be proven to be inaccurate. Though the most accurate definitive determiniations might be described as absolute, or 100%, nothing is ever 100%.

The best we can verify is 99.99999%. All other determinations, based upon hypothesis and extrapolation, will fall below the 99% threshhold. It then lends scientists and debators to hypothesize the precise degree of accuracy and scientific truth. These less definitive assessments lend themselves to "ambiquity and bias," and I believe it is this ambiguity and bias which has crept into the debate on Evolution vs. Creationism, or Intelligent Design. Neither side today can document precisely the degree of accuracy of the theories or beliefs to which they aspound. A 98% postulation could actually be 90%, or 80%, or even 70%.

Ultimately, we must use "Intelligent Discretion" in making "Choices" with respect to broad-reaching policies and agendas. It is within this area that man has been shown repeatedly throughout history - as his downfall. First, you loose perspective, then become caught up in bias, and then you fail to exercise intelligent discretion in choices and actions.

Life and science is ruled at all times by "Probabilities." Hope all have a happy Holiday season and New Year.

 

[arildno]

The best we can verify is 99.99999%.

Gee, only so few decimals right??

 

[Tide]

McGyver,

Neither side today can document precisely the degree of accuracy of the theories or beliefs to which they aspound.

It is 99.99999% certain that ID/Creationism is not science. Not all "theories" are created equal.

 

[Evo]

pattylou's post reminded me of this.

A Creation "Science" Geologic Time Scale

(1) 4000 B.C. Creation Week: (laws of science suspended)

Day 1 - Space, light & dark, Earth materials.
Day 2 - Waters above and waters below.
Day 3 - Earth's crust and plants.
Day 4 - Sun, moon, and stars in place.
Day 5 - Atmosphere + animals of the waters.
Day 6 - Land animals + Adam & Eve.
Day 7 - Day of rest.

1,500 years. Pre-Flood "Geology." Laws of science invalid.

(2) Adam and Eve, talking snakes, etc.

(3) World's waters are in great Venus-like atmosphere or in ground
water. No rain, no ocean basins.

(4) Radiometric dating invalid; speed of light changed.

(5) Humans, dinosaurs, mammals, the "works," all live together in
peace. Both lions and Tyranosaurus Rex are vegetarians in Eden before
the "fall."

(6) Human life spans up to 900 years.

(7) Battle of Satan and angels produces craters on moon.

Flood Year: Flood "Geology" - ONE (?) year of normal (?) "science"

Rain - 40 days

(8) Big animals run to mountain tops. Not a single dumb human caught
in all the early flood sediments. All dinosaurs washed off only in
middle flood-time.

(9) Coral reefs (Guadalupe Mountains of Texas) grow to thicknesses of
half a mile during single year.

(10) Vast coal beds accumulate one on top of another, each as original
swamp deposits on order of 100 feet thick, all in one year.

(11) Mile-thick salt formations in Utah form by evaporation (!) of
seawater during (!) the flood.

Flood - about 250 days.

(12) Most of the world's sedimentary rocks dumped on continents to
average thickness of one mile, almost entirely during the flood year.

(13) Most continental drift occurs. Flood waters drain into the newly
formed ocean basins. Atlantic opens at average rate of 1/2 mile per
hour.

(14) Most deep sea sediments (average about 1,500 feet thick) collect
on the newly opened ocean floors.

(15) Hawaiian volcano built 30,000 feet high on new sea floor. (Cools
enough for birds and plants from Ark to colonize soon after end of
flood year.)

Final Retreat - ? 100 days ?

(16)Volcano of Mount Ararat built 7,000 feet high underwater and cools
in time for grounding of the Ark.

(17) Successive Yellowstone ash beds bury 10 to 27 forests one on top
of another, all grown during single year.

(18) Grand Canyon cut by receding flood waters. Flood sediments
de-water and harden in one year to rock strong enough to stand as
steep, mile-high cliffs.

Post-Flood Geology - 4,500 years of normal (?) science to Present

(19)From Ark, Noah (?) directs streams of distinctive animal and plant
communities to migrate to Africa, Australia, South America, etc.
(Ferry service ?) (Some creationists use post-flood continental
drift at rates up to one mile per hour !)

(20)Sun stands still for Israelite battle. Earth stops rotating and
then starts again due to near-miss by Venus out of its orbit ?
(Velikovsky)

(21)Only one ice age as post-flood atmosphere cools.
Geologists' abundant evidence of many great ice advances
separated by sub-tropical vegetation and development of thick soil zones
between some advances are wrong.

(22)Late-flood granite masses, formed at 1,000 degrees (F.), cool to
present low temperatures at rates in violation of all laws of thermal
physics. Fit to radiometric dates is mere coincidence.

(23)Extreme rates of continental drift typical of flood (1/2 mile per
hour) suddenly slow to present-day laser-measured rates of inches per
year. Accord of present rates with radiometric dates is mere chance.

(24)Coral reefs (Bikini, Eniwetok) grow 1/2 to 1 mile thick in first
1,000 years (rate of one foot per month) then slow to present measured
rates of inches per century.

http://chem.tufts.edu/science/Geology/Wise/CreationistGeologyRefuted.htm

 

[scott1]

In addition, the board rewrote the definition of science, so that it is no longer limited to the search for natural explanations of phenomena.

Rewirting the deftion of Science! It's not there job to rewirte the deftion of secince there soppesed teach not make it up!
Intllgent design is NOTa secinetific theory there's no way it can expermited it's just somthing to combine chuch and state.What are they soppesd teaching them all what Intellgent says that somthing desingned and created the Universe that made life complex

 

[Astronuc]

(4) Radiometric dating invalid; speed of light changed.

(7) Battle of Satan and angels produces craters on moon.

(20) Sun stands still for Israelite battle. Earth stops rotating and
then starts again due to near-miss by Venus out of its orbit ?

I think in that part of the world, the prevailing idea of the time was that the sun traveled across the sky. Later many people had the idea that the Earth was the center of the universe.

(22) . . . Fit to radiometric dates is mere coincidence.

And they want to be taken seriously?

(5) Humans, dinosaurs, mammals, the "works," all live together in
peace. Both lions and Tyranosaurus Rex are vegetarians in Eden before
the "fall."

(19)From Ark, Noah (?) directs streams of distinctive animal and plant
communities to migrate to Africa, Australia, South America, etc.

One of the obvious problems here is that Noah and his people did not know of the existence of these other places. Also, while there were Hebrew words for many animals, there were no words to name or describe any of the animals found in other parts of the world.

I'd go on, but I am exhausted from laughing so hard!

Merry Christmas. Ho, Ho, Ho!

 

[Phobos]

Flood Year: Flood "Geology" - ONE (?) year of normal (?) "science"
Rain - 40 days
(8) Big animals run to mountain tops. Not a single dumb human caught
in all the early flood sediments. All dinosaurs washed off only in
middle flood-time.

Not to mention that, somehow, all the immobile lifeforms and all things buried pre-Flood do not show up in the oldest rocks. Anyone dig up a Precambrian human cemetary yet?

(18) Grand Canyon cut by receding flood waters. Flood sediments
de-water and harden in one year to rock strong enough to stand as
steep, mile-high cliffs.

..with preferential fossil sorting in each layer of course...