Kepler's Laws, two large bodies

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving Kepler's laws, specifically concerning the orbital dynamics of a star orbiting a black hole. The problem presents two main questions: determining the star's orbital radius and its orbital speed, given the mass of the black hole and the orbital period of the star.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the need for additional assumptions regarding the mass of the star to solve for the orbital radius and speed. There is uncertainty about whether simplified Kepler equations can be applied due to the comparable masses of the star and black hole. Some participants consider the implications of the Roche limit and question the mass of the star in relation to the black hole.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring the implications of assumptions needed to solve the problem. There is recognition that without additional information about the star's mass, the problem cannot be resolved. Multiple interpretations of the scenario are being considered.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem lacks sufficient information to determine the mass of the star, which is critical for solving the orbital radius and speed. The discussion reflects on the complexities introduced by the comparable masses of the two bodies involved.

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< Mentor Note -- thread moved to HH from the technical physics forums, so no HH Template is shown >[/color]

Here is something that some one asked me, as their homework question, and it stumped me.

A star is seen orbiting a black hole. The black hole's mass is 6.0E30 kg (approx, 3 solar masses). The star has an orbital period of 2.4 hours. The questions are:

(A) What is the star’s orbital radius in meters?
(B) What is the star’s orbital speed in m/s?

For #A, they were given the answer to be 5.7E8 m. But they couldn't match how they got that answer. My feeling is since it's a stellar mass black hole and a star, the two objects are relatively close in mass to each other, so you can't use the simplified Kepler equations, you have to use the general Kepler equations:

T2 = (4 Π2 r3)/(G (M1 + M2))

But I'm not sure about how to solve this, given that there are two unknowns here, the orbital radius, and the mass of the star. How do you go about solving for the star mass?
 
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You cannot determine the mass, the radius or anything else without additional assumptions. As the question asks for radius, I guess you have to make some assumption about the star's mass.
 
mfb said:
You cannot determine the mass, the radius or anything else without additional assumptions. As the question asks for radius, I guess you have to make some assumption about the star's mass.
That's what I figured, but I thought I might be missing something. Maybe an assumed equation that let's you simultaneously solve both variables together?
 
The star is just at the Roche limit? That would give an interesting question.
The star is our sun?
The star is very light compared to the black hole?

I don't know.
 

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