Kinetic/potential energies for a ball thrown down

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    Ball Energies
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the kinetic and potential energies of a ball thrown downward from a height. Participants explore the relationship between these forms of energy at different points during the ball's descent, particularly focusing on energy conservation principles and the equations governing kinetic and potential energy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the ball has potential energy given by u = mgh before it is thrown and when it hits the ground, questioning the transition between potential and kinetic energy during the fall.
  • Another participant proposes that the initial total energy is E = mgh + 1/2mv^2, seeking clarification on the energy state when the ball hits the ground.
  • A subsequent reply confirms the initial energy equation and emphasizes that energy is conserved, suggesting that potential energy transforms into kinetic energy as the ball descends.
  • Another participant elaborates on the concept of mechanical energy conservation, stating that the only external force acting on the ball is gravity, which is considered an internal conservative force in this context.
  • This participant also notes that the total mechanical energy remains constant, with potential energy at height h and kinetic energy increasing as the ball approaches the ground.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the conservation of mechanical energy principle and the relationship between potential and kinetic energy, but there are varying interpretations of the equations and the specific energy states at different points in the ball's trajectory.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty regarding the application of energy equations and the conditions under which energy transformations occur. There is also a lack of consensus on the specific values of velocity and energy at different points in the ball's motion.

Kork
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Hi again!

So, this time I have a ball with a mass m that I throw down from some point with a height h.

I want to write the kinetic and potentiel energies that the ball has in the start and in the end for this ball that is falling to h=0.

What I have thought of is that the ball must have a potential energy, u = mgh before it is thrown and when it hits the grown, and when it's moving down the energy is kinetic. I don't understand completely why and when it's undergoing a certain form of energy.

How does mgh=1/2mv^2 relate to this situation?

In my notes I also have that E = mgh + 1/2mv2 , which for some reason is the start energy?
 
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Or is this correct:

In the start I have that:
E = mgh + 1/2mv^2

What about when it hits the ground?
 
Kork said:
Or is this correct:

In the start I have that:
E = mgh + 1/2mv^2
Yes, where h is the initial height above the ground and v the initial speed at which you throw the ball.
What about when it hits the ground?
Energy is conserved, so that potential energy gets transformed to additional kinetic energy.

The same equation applies, only now the height is the final height and the velocity is the final velocity. The total energy remains the same as it was at the start.
 
The basic concept is that mechanical energy of a body is constant if no external force does work on it.

In the start just before you throw the ball, the ball was at height h above the ground and had speed 0.
When you throw it you apply a force which does work on it and instantaneously makes the ball have speed v.

From here, till the ball reaches the ground the only external force acting on it is the gravity.

Now consider the ball and Earth as a system so that gravity is now an internal conservative force and regard the energy due to it as potential energy.
Thus no external force acts on this system (till it hits the ground)and its total mechanical energy i.e sum of potential and kinetic energies is constant.

Initially the ball was at height h above the ground(where we regard potential energy to be 0).
So its Total E was mv^2/2 + mgh.

Later when it reached the ground (just before touching) suppose its speed becomes x.here height is 0 and body has only kinetic energy . Thus mx^2/2 = E.
 

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