Kronecker Delta: Order of Indices Explained

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties and implications of the Kronecker delta, particularly in the context of tensor notation as presented in Weinberg’s "Gravitation and Cosmology." Participants explore the equality of different forms of the Kronecker delta, its interpretation as a tensor, and the significance of index order in tensor notation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Jim Lai questions whether \(\delta_{\beta}{}^{\varepsilon}\) is equal to \(\delta^{\varepsilon}{}_{\beta}\).
  • Some participants assert that both forms are equal, stating they are one if \(\varepsilon = \beta\) and zero otherwise, suggesting that the horizontal positioning of indices is not a concern.
  • One participant explains that the Kronecker delta can be interpreted as mixed components of a metric tensor, providing a mathematical expression to support this view.
  • Another participant humorously reflects on the complexity of tensor notation and the identity mapping involved, indicating a nuanced understanding of the topic.
  • Some participants emphasize that the Kronecker delta is a symmetric tensor, noting that interchanging indices does not affect its value, while also discussing the importance of index order in general tensor notation.
  • However, a later reply challenges the classification of the Kronecker delta as a symmetric tensor, arguing that it is a (1,1) tensor and that discussing symmetries may not be appropriate due to its single index of each type.
  • Concerns are raised about mixing covariant and contravariant indices in tensor relations, suggesting that such mixtures are not valid.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the Kronecker delta, its symmetry properties, and the implications of index order. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on these topics.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions and properties of tensors, particularly in relation to the Kronecker delta and its interpretation in different coordinate systems.

Jim Lai
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Hi everyone,

I am a new member and would like to ask a naive simple (my guess) question.

I am reading Weinberg’s Gravitation and Cosmology. On page 59, Eq. 2.12.10 therein reads
$$
\begin{aligned}
\left[\sigma_{\alpha \beta}\right]_{\gamma \delta}{}^{\varepsilon \zeta}
&=\eta_{\alpha \gamma} \delta_{\beta}{}^{\varepsilon} \delta^{\zeta}{}_{\delta}
-\eta_{\beta \gamma} \delta_{\alpha}{}^{\varepsilon} \delta^{\zeta}{}_{\delta}\\
&+\eta_{\alpha \delta} \delta_{\beta}{}^{\zeta} \delta^{\varepsilon}{}_{\gamma}
-\eta_{\beta \delta} \delta_{\alpha}{}^{\zeta} \delta^{\varepsilon}{}_{\gamma}
\end{aligned}
$$

I wonder if \delta_{\beta}{}^{\varepsilon} is equal to \delta^{\varepsilon}{}_{\beta}. Would anyone enlighten me?

Regards,
Jim Lai
 
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Yes, those are equal. Both are equal to one if ##\varepsilon = \beta## and zero otherwise. Generally there is therefore no need to worry about the horizontal positioning of the indices on the ##\delta##.
 
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That's because the Kronecker symbol can be read as the mixed components of the "metric" (it's rather a pseudometric) tensor,
$${\delta_{\alpha}}^{\beta}=g_{\alpha \gamma} g^{\gamma \beta} = g_{\gamma \alpha} g^{\gamma \beta} = {\delta^{\beta}}_{\alpha}.$$
 
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vanhees71 said:
That's because the Kronecker symbol can be read as the mixed components of the "metric" (it's rather a pseudometric) tensor,
$${\delta_{\alpha}}^{\beta}=g_{\alpha \gamma} g^{\gamma \beta} = g_{\gamma \alpha} g^{\gamma \beta} = {\delta^{\beta}}_{\alpha}.$$
I thought about writing that, but then I thought ”… of any non-degenerate (0,2) tensor and its inverse really … or wait, it is just the identity map on the tangent space vs the identity map on the cotangent space …” and then I realized I knew too much and left it there 😂
 
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The Kronecker delta is a symmetric tensor, so interchanging the order of the indices doesn't matter. One often sees people omitting the order of indices for symmetric tensors in general, i.e. they're write ##
\sigma^a_b##. Since for symmetric tensors ##\sigma^a{}_b = \sigma^b{}_a##, the order doesn't matter. In general though, the order of indices does matter, and specifying the order of indices is required. For an anti-symmetric tensor ##\sigma^a{}_b## = -##\sigma^b{}_a##, for example.
 
pervect said:
The Kronecker delta is a symmetric tensor, so interchanging the order of the indices doesn't matter. One often sees people omitting the order of indices for symmetric tensors in general, i.e. they're write ##
\sigma^a_b##.
This is incorrect. The Kronecker delta is a (1,1) tensor and if therefore really does not make much sense to discuss symmetries as it only has one index of each type. In a Euclidean space in Cartesian coordinates, it is common to write the metric tensor as ##\delta_{ij}## with both indices down, but this is particular for that coordinate system.

pervect said:
Since for symmetric tensors ##\sigma^a{}_b = \sigma^b{}_a##, the order doesn't matter. In general though, the order of indices does matter, and specifying the order of indices is required. For an anti-symmetric tensor ##\sigma^a{}_b## = -##\sigma^b{}_a##, for example.
None of those relations are viable as they mix covariant and contravariant indices (or, in abstract index notation, mixes vector and dual vector arguments).
 
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