Kronecker function products - matrix format

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the understanding and application of the Kronecker function in the context of matrix equations, specifically focusing on the terms involved in the equations and their implications in different dimensions. Participants are exploring the nature of the Kronecker symbol and its role in matrix representation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the Kronecker terms in the context of matrix entries and seeks clarification on the meaning of indices "m" and "n".
  • Another participant explains that the Kronecker symbol delta(i,j) indicates equality of indices, suggesting that "m" and "n" are free indices that may be summed over, leading to a contracted matrix with only two free indices.
  • A later reply questions the dimensionality of the problem, noting that the typical representation of the Kronecker function is in a 3x3 matrix format, while the current context involves 4x3 matrices, raising compatibility concerns.
  • The same participant expresses uncertainty about the summation over indices and the specific values that "m" and "n" should take for the equations to hold, indicating a desire to understand the underlying concepts rather than just manipulating equations.
  • Another participant suggests a potential formulation for the matrix representation involving summation over indices, but this remains a suggestion without consensus.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the interpretation of the Kronecker function and the roles of the indices involved. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding the dimensionality and compatibility of the matrices discussed.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in understanding the assumptions behind the indices and their summation, as well as the specific dimensional context of the equations. The discussion highlights the need for clarity on how the Kronecker function applies in various dimensional settings.

hermish
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Hi all,
Firstly, I am not sure whether this is the area of the forum to ask this.
I have been learning and researching a completely different topic, and from this I have come across a completely new concept of the Kronecker function. I have done a google search on this to get the intro and general background of how this function works. However, there is a particular problem which I cannot put my seem to get my head around.

I have included the relevant equations below. I understand these equations EXCEPT for the Kronecker terms.

Cmatrix_zpsx5fauoza.png


Cmatrix_zps5wjnniel.png


From my understanding, the Cijkl equation can be expanded to obtain the C and C^p matrices. I do not fully understand how this process works, because I do not understand how to utilise the Kronecker function.

In this context, I am guessing the i and j in the Kronecker terms represent the entry of the matrix, i.e if i=2, j=1, that means you are looking at the 2nd row and 1st column. And hence, you can go from there to calculate the term that goes into the particular matrix entry.

What I do not understand are the "m" and "n" terms. What are they? What purpose do they serve? Can I just set any number for "m" and "n"

Thanks in advanced for the help.
 
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The Kronecker symbol delta(i,j) means 1 if i=j and 0 otherwise. If you are working in 3 dimensions then the matrix delta(i,j) is the identity matrix consisting of 1s on the diagonal and zeroes elsewhere.

m and n are free indices. What may be going on is a summation over these indices, hence they disappear and you only have i and j left, so the "contracted" C has only 2 free indices and may be written down as a matrix. Just a guess.
 
davidmoore63@y said:
The Kronecker symbol delta(i,j) means 1 if i=j and 0 otherwise. If you are working in 3 dimensions then the matrix delta(i,j) is the identity matrix consisting of 1s on the diagonal and zeroes elsewhere.

m and n are free indices. What may be going on is a summation over these indices, hence they disappear and you only have i and j left, so the "contracted" C has only 2 free indices and may be written down as a matrix. Just a guess.

Hi
Thanks very much for the response

You have also reminded me about this whole notion of 3 dimensions and 1s sitting on the diagonal that is not sitting well with me. Firstly, in all honesty, I am not even sure whether this whole thing is regarded as 3 dimension or whatever number of dimensions. There doesn't seem to be anything in the equation that suggests we are working in 3 dimensions. Regardless of that, whether it's 3 dimensions, 2 dimensions, 4 dimensions or whatever, the typical format of the Kronecker function is a 3x3 matrix (this appears on every site on google search), in the case here it contains 4 x 3 matrices which are obviously not compatible. However, I am guessing that since a couple of zeroes appear in the third row and third column, this may have something to do with making it compatible with a 3x3 matrix?

Finally, I cannot seem to gather what you mean by a "summation over these indices" and more particularly, "you only have i and j left". I have tried working backwards, and it seems like the terms "m" and "n" need to be something particular for these equations to hold. I am able to expand the equation into a matrix format, however I would like to understand the concepts behind it, because at the moment I am simply just working backwards

Thanks, Nick
 
I was suggesting that perhaps [C] = Sigma (m=1 to 3) Sigma (n=1 to 3) of C(i,j,m,n)
 

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