-la.1.1.19 the augmented process

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the augmented process in solving systems of equations, specifically focusing on problems related to augmented matrices. Participants explore various approaches to manipulate these matrices and derive values for variables involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about the augmented process and seek clarification on how to manipulate the matrix.
  • There is a discussion on how to derive the value of \( h \) from the equation \( (6-3h)y = -4 \), with one participant calculating \( h = \frac{10}{3} \) and questioning the condition \( h \ne 2 \).
  • Another participant suggests that \( y \) can be expressed as \( y = -\frac{4}{6-3h} \) and concludes that \( h \) can take all real numbers except 2.
  • Participants debate whether \( x \) can be determined from the first line of the augmented matrix, with one suggesting \( x \) could be any real number.
  • There is a further exploration of another problem where participants manipulate the augmented matrix to find \( h = 3 \) and later \( h = 6 \) through different approaches, questioning the implications of these values on the solutions for \( y \).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach consensus on the implications of the values of \( h \) for the solutions of the equations. There are multiple competing views on how to interpret the results and the conditions under which solutions exist.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the conditions under which solutions exist, particularly focusing on the values of \( h \) that affect the solvability of the system. The discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps and varying interpretations of the results derived from the augmented matrices.

karush
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nmh{1000} ov 346.21
1.1.19.PNG
ok I am trying to these 4 problems
but don't think I understand the augmented process

these are the answers to 19 and 21

1.1.9a.PNG

$\tiny{1.1.19}$
$$A_{19}=\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
1& \,h& \,4\\
3& \, 6& \, 8
\end{array}\right]$$$\textit{so if we multiply $R_1$ by subtract from R_3 we have}$\\
$$\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
1& \,h& \,4\\
0& \, (6-3h)& \, -4
\end{array}\right]$$uhmmm ?
 
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karush said:
$\tiny{1.1.19}$
$$A_{19}=\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
1& \,h& \,4\\
3& \, 6& \, 8
\end{array}\right]$$$\textit{so if we multiply $R_1$ by subtract from R_3 we have}$
$$\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
1& \,h& \,4\\
0& \, (6-3h)& \, -4
\end{array}\right]$$uhmmm ?

Good. Can you continue?
What would $y$ become?
 
I like Serena said:
Good. Can you continue?
What would $y$ become?

with (h=y)
\begin{align*}
(6-3h)&=-4 \\
3h&=10\\
h&=\frac{10}{3}
\end{align*}but how does this answer $h \ne 2$ ?
 
karush said:
with (h=y)
\begin{align*}
(6-3h)&=-4 \\
3h&=10\\
h&=\frac{10}{3}
\end{align*}

but how does this answer $h \ne 2$ ?

The second line in the augmented matrix actually stands for:
$$0\cdot x + (6-3h)\cdot y = -4 \quad\Rightarrow\quad (6-3h)y=-4$$
Can we solve $y$ from it?
 
Re: la.1.1.19 the augumented process

I like Serena said:
The second line in the augmented matrix actually stands for:
$$0\cdot x + (6-3h)\cdot y = -4 \quad\Rightarrow\quad (6-3h)y=-4$$
Can we solve $y$ from it?
$\begin{align*}
0\cdot x + (6-3h)\cdot y &= -4\\
(6-3h)\cdot y&=-4\\
y&=-\frac{4}{6-3h}
\end{align*}$
so then h equals all real numbers except 2
whatever the notation is for that?
 
Re: la.1.1.19 the augumented process

karush said:
$\begin{align*}
0\cdot x + (6-3h)\cdot y &= -4\\
(6-3h)\cdot y&=-4\\
y&=-\frac{4}{6-3h}
\end{align*}$
so then h equals all real numbers except 2
whatever the notation is for that?

Good. It means that $y$ has a solution if and only if $h\ne 2$.

Btw, for the system to be linearly consistent, we also need to be able to find a solution for $x$.
Can we?
 
Re: la.1.1.19 the augumented process

I like Serena said:
Good. It means that $y$ has a solution if and only if $h\ne 2$.

Btw, for the system to be linearly consistent, we also need to be able to find a solution for $x$.
Can we?

I can only see that x could be any real number since it would be gone by multiplying by zero

ok here is the last one but only see a single answer?

$A_{22}=\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
-4& \,12& \,\textbf{h}\\ 2& -6& -3 \end{array}\right]\\$
$\text{Add $R_2$ to $R_1$}\\$
$\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr} -4+2& \,12-6& \, h-3\\ 2& -6& -3\end{array}\right]\\
0+0=h-3\\$
$\text{so $h=3$}$
 
Re: la.1.1.19 the augumented process

karush said:
I can only see that x could be any real number since it would be gone by multiplying by zero

What about the first line of the augmented matrix?
Can't we deduce $x$ from it now that we have an expression for $y$?

karush said:
ok here is the last one but only see a single answer?

$A_{22}=\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
-4& \,12& \,\textbf{h}\\ 2& -6& -3 \end{array}\right]\\$
$\text{Add $R_2$ to $R_1$}\\$
$\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr} -4+2& \,12-6& \, h-3\\ 2& -6& -3\end{array}\right]\\
0+0=h-3\\$
$\text{so $h=3$}$

How about bringing it into row echelon form as before?
And solve for $y$ again?
 
Re: la.1.1.19 the augumented process

How about bringing it into row echelon form as before? And solve for $y$ again?[/QUOTE said:
$\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
-4& \,12& \,\textbf{h}\\ 2& -6& -3 \end{array}\right]\\$
Ok to avoid fraction switch $R_1$ and $R_2$
$\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr} 2& -6& -3 \\ -4& \,12& \,\textbf{h} \end{array}\right]\\$
then multiply R_1 by 2 and add it to R_2
$\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr} 2& -6& -3 \\ 0& \,0 & \,\textbf{h-6} \end{array}\right]\\$
then
0=h-6
so
h=6
 
  • #10
Re: la.1.1.19 the augumented process

karush said:
$\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
-4& \,12& \,\textbf{h}\\ 2& -6& -3 \end{array}\right]\\$
Ok to avoid fraction switch $R_1$ and $R_2$
$\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr} 2& -6& -3 \\ -4& \,12& \,\textbf{h} \end{array}\right]\\$
then multiply R_1 by 2 and add it to R_2
$\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr} 2& -6& -3 \\ 0& \,0 & \,\textbf{h-6} \end{array}\right]\\$
then
0=h-6
so
h=6

Correct.
In this case we don't really get to the point that we can solve for $y$.
We can already see that $h$ must be $6$ because otherwise there can't be a solution.
 
  • #11
https://dl.orangedox.com/wlKD7eKSWiQ79alYD6
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